"Genetic Re-roll" credit item

Okay, reposting about this idea, since when I tried to edit the other one to clarify something, it somehow destroyed the thread, lol. Hopefully I remember the bulk of my points, haha. Apologies to anyone who already saw this thread.

This might be a bit long, as I want to try and explain how I would envision an item like this working.

I think it would be very helpful to have a credit item that would allow us to "re-roll" the genes a bred foal has. This would *only* create a new genotype that would be "naturally" possible based on the parents' genes.

This would not change the foal's stats or gender; it would be the same foal, with stats set at the time it was bred (so it would not gain anything based on potential subsequent stat gain of the parents.)
I also think it should not change the conformation. If people wanted the opportunity to refigure conformation, that could be a separate item, but this one I'm only suggesting alter the genotype.

I think it should only be for use on foals, or horses in the 0-2 year age bracket (so they would not have been bred themselves.) It would also make sense to me to limit it to bred foals, rather than foundations. (Perhaps that doesn't need to be a definite limit; it would just be a waste to use an item like this to get a new EC genotype.)

This has a separate functionality than the coat randomizers/applicators. This item would ensure that the horse's new color was genetically possible based on its heritage (no smoky cream duns with chestnut parents or the like), and would also bypass the limitations (such as no flax, silver, pangare, and sooty) that those items have.
[And even using an applicator to get your desired color doesn't guarantee it will be genetically possible, once you factor in non-expressed genes (like agouti on a chestnut horse) or hetero- vs. homozygous genes.]

I don't see why this would have to be a one-time use item; I think that much like the randomizers, you'd be able to use it as many times per horse as you'd like. (By which I mean each item would be one-time use, but a horse could have multiple items used on it.)
I can see there being criticism of this taking some of the challenge out of color breeding, but players can already use the randomizers or applicators to get (almost) any color and pattern they want, so this just offers a more realistic option.

Another criticism I can see would be regarding selling foals. If you sell a foal at a price partially determined by genes, the buyer could then use this and wind up with a "nicer" genotype, one they didn't pay for. However, I don't think this is a substantially higher risk than already exists with the current color-altering items, as a buyer could already do the same thing with those.
And if the age limit were put in place, a breeder could also wait until the horse hit 3 before selling, if they really didn't want this to be used on their foal.

I suggest a price of 3EVC per use. This is the cost of a coat randomizer + a pattern randomizer, and would actually be more limited in some ways than those items. (Though less limited in others.)
I know that this is an item I would have used several times, and any credit item that gets use is a benefit to the game.

I think this would be helpful, because I'm pretty sure almost all of us have experienced disappointing results from breedings. Sometimes there are a lot of interesting genes in play, and a foal has the rotten luck not to get any of them. At times I've even bred the same pair many times, trying to get a specific gene, and yet none of the foals get it. When that happens, it can mean I've lost that gene entirely from that line, which is very frustrating.
Often times you have the choice to breed a pairing again, but not always. Since you don't know the result of a breeding immediately, the parents may have retired. Or perhaps it was a breeding to a stud that only had a limited number of breedings offered.

There was one criticism posted on the other thread (before I accidentally somehow imploded it) that it could potentially make players less likely to breed multiple foals, instead preferring to breed one and use the item to get what they want. I don't think this would be too frequent an issue; it would still be much cheaper to breed multiple foals. I'd mostly see this getting use when multiple breedings have still not had the desired result.
For example, I generally breed my horses in groups of about 10 pairs, which at 3EVC/item, would be 30 credits if I used one item per foal. That's a lot more credits than I would be able to drop that frequently! So while it might be something some people would do, I don't know that there would be all that many players who would both want to and could afford to do so every time they breed.

Okay, hopefully I didn't forget any of my major points this time around, and hopefully this thread doesn't spontaneously combust the way the previous one did, lol

Love it! This is an item that I would definitely use, though as you said I don't believe that it would reduce the number of times I breed my horses. Also I would buy this over coat randomizers/applicators because I want the foal to have plausible genetic inheritance. I agree that it should be limited to usage on foals; just because it could get mighty messy otherwise.

It would be nice to have a block that doesn't allow it to be used when there is no genetic variation to be had in a foal.

So if you breed a EE AA GG horse to a EE aa gg horse and try to use the item on the foal you would get an error message rather than the game allowing you to waste it. This would just be a nice "safety" feature for players who may not completely understand genetics.

I Adore this so much ♥

My breeding goal is mostly of the time silver and Flaxen.
It makes me so sad if i dont get any of the genes out of my pairs.
Flaxen is limited in the game becouse you have to buy it with customs so it's really sad if you pay 15 credits for a Flaxen one and you don't have the luck to get a double Flaxen foal out of them!

100% Support!

Thanks for clearing up my questions from the other post.

Another criticism I can see would be regarding selling foals. If you sell a foal at a price partially determined by genes, the buyer could then use this and wind up with a "nicer" genotype, one they didn't pay for.

I could make it so that only the breeder of the foal can change its genotype/use the reroll item?

Last edited on 2016-10-24 at 04:37:04 by Abbey

I don't see any real issue with someone buying a foal then using a credit item to give it a better genotype. You can already do this with existing credit items. It's not as if a foal would gain an extra 3 EVC worth of value if it had better genes, so the breeder isn't really missing out on profit by selling it without re-rolling for better genes.

The only limitations I think are needed are to only allow it to be used on unbred horses, and prevent it being used in cases where only one genotype is possible.

Fair point - I would probably limit it to unbred horses, horses that aren't currently listed for sale/stud (so the owner can't accept an offer after changing the genotype and surprise the new owner/mare owner, etc) but not to be breeder-only in that case.

That seems sensible. Preventing it being used on horses for sale or stud is also a good idea.

Ya'll mention it being used on foals, will there be a time limit to use it, or you can use it up until the horse itself was bred?

I love this idea! Makes me wish it excited for all those disappointing solid chestnuts and bays I received out of two champagne parents ;)

Would this also randomize markings as well in terms of face and leg markings? or only the pattern and base/modifers? In my preference, I wouldn't want it to alter general markings. I think that would be a nightmare to code!

I do like the idea of limiting it to unbred horses. I wouldn't oppose to having it be limited to breeder only, but I can see where some people wouldn't like that.

Great suggestion!

@Ren - I think I would probably like to limit it to foals only as it's a reroll of the parents genetics it should technically be only a birth-day thing ;D but I'd be willing to extend it to the first "year" of birth.

@Elegant - I would be able to include leg and face markings, it wouldn't be too difficult if it's just essentially using the same code as when the horses are first bred :)

The only problem I can possibly see here is if one of the parents is removed from the game (e.g. dies and has records deleted). I would have to disallow the reroll of genes in that case as there'd be a missing set of genes.

I'm loving that my idea is getting so much discussion!

My initial thought was for it to be usable on any non-adult horse, so ages 0-2, but I think it makes complete sense to limit it to before they turn 1, as well. Either way.
(And that makes it easy for someone to wait a little while before selling a horse, if they don't want the buyer to use this item on their horse.)

I hadn't even thought about whether it would impact white markings. Either way makes sense for that, too.

Aglet and Ulysses Blue both brought up the good point of limiting its use on horses with only one possible genotype, so no one wastes the item. (Although if it could reroll for leg and facial markings too, it's possible someone would want to use it anyway?)

And it makes sense that it couldn't be used on a horse who had a parent who'd been entirely removed from the game. A deceased horse is one thing, as it would still have a known genotype, but one with no record would just not work.

Another reason it shouldn't be a breeder-only thing is brood mares. The person who commissioned the breeding isn't recognised as the breeder by the game, even though it's their foal, and they should be able to reroll the genes if they want.

I love this idea, because I have thought of using a color randomizer on foals but then thought it would be funky if the genotype didn't match the parents.

I also love how well thought out you presented this :]

100% solid support