Calling Like-Minded People

I've made no secret of how I feel the culture of disdain towards inbreeding and "over"breeding, along with the practice of buying huge numbers of foundations and keeping your lines exclusive, are ruining the economy by:

1. Flooding the market with cheap, reject foundations,

2. Not providing quality horses for others to buy,

3. And not buying other people's horses.

I believe that there is no reason why any horse should be considered too overbred or too inbred for quality, as far as the actual quality or value of the horse, except for the artificial standards of absolute purity that are stifling the game.  In fact, there are many good reasons why "over"breeding and inbreeding are very good tools to create very high quality horses (which is why these practices are widely used by real-life horse breeders at the very top of their game.)  It can help your herd in this game by:

1. Increasing rare colors in your herd without having to use credit items - all you need is one horse with a rare gene, and, with careful breeding, you can spread that gene throughout your whole herd.

2. Increasing conformation by breeding multiple foals from a single pairing, and choosing the best.

3. Lowering non-discipline stats quickly, even in a large herd, with even just a few horses with pre-recode ancestry.

4. Raising total stats quickly, with just a few particularly high-statted horses.

Everyone has a different notion of what makes a horse great, but the most measurable way is through showing.  That is where the rubber meets the road.  If a horse is winning shows hand over fist, there is no argument that it is a great horse.  "Over"breeding and inbreeding is the best way to create a whole herd of top-notch show horses.

The main drawback to these methods is that they are unpopular, which makes it extremely difficult to find people who are willing to buy or sell horses at all, let alone ones with those wrongfully despised characteristics.  And I am coming to believe that there are many people who in their hearts would gladly use these breeding methods, but are afraid that they will be unable to sell any horses, because they will be considered undesirable.

But, if all those people who were afraid, all decided to make the switch at once, this would not be a problem.  There would not only be a market for any horses you wished to sell, but there would be options to choose from when you were looking for horses to buy!  The market would change, because the people creating the market changed.

We need cooperation, and to cooperate, we need communication.  We need to know that we will have allies out there, other people breeding similar horses, buying them, selling them, and putting them up for stud and brood.

So, if you feel the way I feel, but have hesitated to act on it, or if you have acted on it, and would like to encourage others to do the same, please comment!  Let us know what it is you are looking for, to make this work for you.  What breeds and what disciplines would you like to breed, so we can set up cooperation.  Any thoughts or concerns or questions you have about the issue.

Let's get communicating, and then let's get cooperating!

I agree with communication! It's a vital part of any relationship; so why shouldn't it be for horse breeding? 


1. Increasing Rare Colors: If I buy a foundation or custom horse, it's only AFTER I have scoured the entire game for a horse that fits my breeding standards in terms of conformation, ns stats, and color for any unpaired foal or young horse. Say, if I want to keep the ff gene in this one horses' genotype, simply search for one that has Ff or ff. I look for horses that have genes that can help increase the chances of keeping any lovely colors I want, as I love colorful horses as much as anyone, but a bay, black, chestnut, or gray is just as gorgeous. ♥

2. Increasing Conformation: I've taken it upon myself to increase the conformation scores of my herds for the past 18 months. I believe it is starting to show, with careful breeding, and trying to breed enough to see the average scores without going extreme. One pair, Windstorm & Breeze III were bred 9 times together, but between the two, only 2 are breedable, as I *cough* gelded the colts *cough*. Maybe that was wrong, but I tried to keep their lines fairly uncommon, and this is their best foal. :3

3. Lowering Non-specialty Stats Quickly: Oh, this has been an ongoing project for me over the past 2 years, as I LOVE winning show horses, but this isn't half as difficult as conformation. I haven't had as much time to devote myself to my foundation-foundation and foundation-lined pairing lately with my Mustangs and Gypsy's as I like to. 

4. Increasing Stats: I'm willing to take a hit in the stats department, except in the case of ns stats. When you've had two International Horses in the past 3 months, it gets old for the stats, though I do keep close track of what stats foals are born with, their parents stats, and conformation scores. 

For example:
Born with 435 stats on October 19th, 2018.

Sire; Moondust (745 :: 60.25)
Dam; Stardust (873 :: 62.50)

Foal; (435 :: 64.19)

This is what's written in Galaxy Dust's private notes. Those who've bought horses or foals from me have seen these notes.  I just like to keep track of what they were born with and I also write when they reached the next level of stats down below their born with stats and conformation. 

One thing is for sure; being on here for 10 years, I've learned quite a few things:

• NEVER GIVE UP! It will be worth it in the end. That feeling of accomplishment when you look at the pedigree of a horse that you've bred yourself, see the names of horses you've worked with in there, and knowing this foal will do even better than its parents.


• Stats are easy to gain, but conformation, and color are harder! I have found that out rather swiftly. I'm willing to take a hit in the stats department, if it means a chance of an increase of a certain gene, or a rise in the conformation score. 


• The only thing I refuse to take a hit in is the non-specialty stats, as that means said foal can't be shown, and the riding schools won't allow said foal to reach its full possible potential. 


• Pairing is NEVER fun, but can be when you see the potential colors, and the possibility of a better conformation score; especially when they're 3 years old!


• Name themes are a headache, but once you decide, let your imagination go wild! I love my Chincoteague's and Friesian's name themes (RL Ponies and The Lion King/African names). :3


• Equiverse is a game of opportunity. Abbey created and maintains this game along with the help of sweet River! I absolutely adore this game and highly doubt I'll be going anyplace anytime soon. :D Enjoy it and have fun playing it however you want! 


• And lastly, I'm here if anyone needs any help. I love and want to help if you need it; but just so you know, I work 40+ hours a week, and when I'm on EV, it's not for a long time. I get on, care for my horses, do some looking around the forums, and get off to do some artwork, straighten up the house, etc. I'm a busy young woman. :3

I agree with all this. And I focus all my breeds on Western, some of them aren’t popular in the discipline so if I have a horse with good western stats and colours I breed them quite often. :)

I am not agreeing nor disagreeing with your philosophy but I had a comment. Its not intended to offend its just some observations & the 2nd one is based on my own personal experience  :)

My 1st point is EV can be played anyway you want and its this freedom that is both a blessing and a curse as it plays a part in its own downfall economic wise. Because at any given time every player logged onto ev could in theory have a different gameplay style to one another things are never going to work. Unless we are all forced to play EV in the same way nothings going to change with the economy. Players still retain their individual ideas on how to play. For example you have some players here to sell art only; others run rescues; others run cull pens; others play to show; heck some even just come to stalk the forums! 

The 2nd is The only way to get like minded folk to play the same way as you will be a club or co-op or a specific project of course but this will also present problems as well as I know for a fact a project I joined about a year ago that I am literally the only one out of the original 11 I think I dont remember now (for various reasons) that still raises the horses we agreed on so I still now have no other players to buy/sell/breed my project pixels to & in fact am sorta left in limbo with a breed I wouldnt have usually raised & never know whether to lock them up or not. I wont be the only only this has happened to nor will I be the last!

EDIT - just thought of a 3rd thing & I believe a factor in slow sales

Showing. I personally am one of those that like to show their pixels or at least half of them only now thanks to the lack of shows. I can only make so many of my own & the time I show there are so few people logged on to Ev able to make any extra shows I need hence only half the squad gets shown. 

Anyhoo the lack of shows combined with the lack of prize money earned from these shows especially as you go up through  the grades means you operate at a loss if you are exclusively a "raise horses to show" type player. Which I am! The upshot is if there is zero chance of earning any money (or just breaking even would be nice) then players wont spend their money to buy potential show bred horses either irregardless of breeding, inbred or otherwise.

I find it a sad day when a squad of Riding school horses can earn you $70k plus a day & the pixels youve spent 10yrs raising for like 16 generations dont even come close to those kind of earnings! At best a very good one cane get $100k in an individuals lifetime which is about $5880 a week. It costs $7k at the higher levels just to enter that individual in shows for a week so thats about a $19k loss over the lifetime of just one very good horse! At an estimate I loose at least $5.5mil EVD a year on showing! How is that right??!! But its my choice to show so I just get on with it & suck it up! :s

Last edited on 2018-11-05 at 04:52:59 by Fabelhaft [WBs/Friesians]

^^ I agree with you. EV's freedom is one of main reasons behind poor economy. That's why I feel that there's no hope in comeback of economy. That's what drastic measurement is for. Abbey will have to put restrictions on the freedom in order to force players to play in similar ways. The chance of Abbey doing this is extremely unlikely. 


I've seen so many projects failed. Fabelhaft's situation isn't uncommon. People will decided that they have to do something about the economy and created a group of people who felt same way. One month later, that project doesn't exist anymore.  
In the end, I don't think we are "afraid" to give this a chance. In the end, we all will choose our freedom over the economy. They didn't realize it until they start the project and find themselves dislike it or got bored with it. I think it is time to us to accept the reality that most of us doesn't care about the economy. Most players didn't even realize it themselves. They will complain about the poor economy but are quick to defend their freedom.

The main question is: are you willing to sacrifice your freedom to help save the economy?
@ Confessor and others, are you willing to stop buying/breeding inbred and/or overbred horses in order to save the economy?
@ to those who like to raise foundation herds: why do you like it? are you willing to give that up in order to save the economy?
@ those who breeds for conformation only: are you willing to give that up and focus on stats instead? 
@ those who breeds for color only: are you willing to give that up and accepts any colors even if it is bay clydesdale with SbSb? or a horse with GG or white gene?
@ those who choose to ride school their horses: are you willing to give up those money and risk the showing system?
@ those who owns stud/brood stable: are you willing to put restrictions on the amount of foals even if that means you will lose money? or are you willing to remove the restrictions to provide everyone access to those studs/broods even if that means your horses will be overbred?
@ those who hay-cubed their horses: are you willing to stop hay-cubed your horses and start breeding for stats?

Stop for a second and think about your stable. How do you runs your stable? Are you willing to change your ways even if it means losing something?

My answer to this: I like to raise foundation herds because it give me sense of pride when I see a pedigree with all horses bred by me. To know that I've raised a successful herd without outside's help. I considered it as a great challenge and outside help as cheating. Adding a horse with 90+ conformation to my herd will ruins the challenge and create a shortcut.
Am I willing to sacrifice the foundation herds? Nope. I tried to breed horses from outside lines and got bored really fast because it doesn't create same kind of excitement as my foundation herd. Sacrificing that means I will lose excitement and motivation.

Last edited on 2018-11-05 at 08:53:08 by ωιςκεδ

Travel back in time a couple of years, and the economy was fine. What changed? 

I used to play a SIM game where inbreeding was allowed, and even encouraged.

As a result, the economy on that game was dead. Not "slow", "difficult" or "horrible" like it is on EV, but dead.

I was the top breeder of every single one of the breeds I owned and had the equivalent of top show winning 100% conformation horses, yet I had to advertise whatever I bred for free and I was lucky if anyone wanted them.

From my experience allowing inbreeding can eliminate the need for fresh outside blood and sales can come to a complete halt.

If I had a herd of horses with the confo traits I want, the color I want and stats going up every generation, then why would I look for other horses to buy?

Just my two cents.

Last edited on 2018-11-05 at 10:02:30 by Féline

*cough*   hay and sugar cubes happened.....

I think that starting a club for those interested in outsourcing with other players would be a great idea and is definitely something I would participate in.

Currently I have mostly foundation horses that I do intend on breeding. I have been searching for 2nd generation racing bred thoroughbreds from other players that I can buy and lock until my 2nd generation is ready. However this has proven so difficult. I'm not sure if there just aren't many people breeding thoroughbred racehorses or if the breeders just do not offer horses for sale. Either way, sucks for me. 

I do have a few mares I recently purchased off of another player that I am sure have some line breeding somewhere in their pedigrees, which doesn't bother me. I have my eye on a few studs that I know breeding to will give me horses that share ancestry and it doesn't bother me. I just want horses that will excel in shows. 

I agree that because it is such an unpopular idea among some of the "bigger" players it leads newer players to believe that it is a bad practice. I agree if more people were to offer studs and sales then it would help to improve the EV horse market. It is quite possible that people do not do it because they are worried they won't be able to sell any horses. So maybe if even a smaller group of players(like starting a club) were actively doing this then maybe it would help open up the idea of this to more players.

^^ and unlimited foundations (not that I am complaining since I relied on that and I am not willing to give it up)

Plus, we have too many options now. We used to not have riding schools which forced players to show their horses. Show system were different back then which gives us more flexibility in breeding. Also, players' mindset changed A LOT. I guess it is generation thing since I noticed that newer players have different plans than older players. Meh, there's too many factors.

Unpopular opinion: I think breed culling, daily progress, and division lock have a huge role in this. 

Daily Progress: In pre-code, your horses will die if you went inactive without locking your entire account. It was effective culling method. It helps with keeping horses' population under control. Now, all horses are safe from that which leads to overpopulation. We have way too many horses than we can handle (due to unlimited foundations and overpopulation).

Breed Culling: We used to have more breeds and I think it helped with spreading breeders out. We have more like-minded breeders because we had smaller group of breeders who learned from each other. Often, older players will act as "role models" for newer players in same breed. They will learn from us and breed similarly. Now, we have too many breeders and they are too spread out so we get overwhelmed. New players can't find a role model to learn from so they begin to breed in their own way. In past, I could name all strong and well-known pedigrees in Akhal-Tekes (such as Remplir de Fleur and his offsprings) and I can easily take one glance at a pedigree and know what their hidden lines are. Now, I barely know anything about pedigrees because of overpopulation. This is why I am supporter of introducing new breeds (registered crossbreed would be awesome!)

Division Lock: we didn't have that. if you want to lock your horses, you will have to lock your entire account. account lock forced us to use outside lines because we can't just lock horses until we breed their pairs. If I couldn't find a colt for new filly, I would go out and find a colt to pair up with my filly. Now, I will just lock my filly until I breed a colt that goes well with the filly. Division lock also allows breeders to have multiple breeds and 500+ horses. It also reduces the number of strong breeders who focus on one or two breeds only. In pre-code, most breeders would focus on 1-2 (common) or 4-6 (uncommon) breeds. Now, there are many good horses that are locked for long time because their breeders doesn't have time to take care of 500+ breeds. 

EDIT:
I forgot about this but we used to have auto-generated shows. If there's not enough shows created for that grade, then the game will generated shows for us so we will have enough shows to enter. Now, we have to relied on deluxe members alone to create shows for us.

EDIT #2: Oh, I also forgot about DNA Tweaks. Why do we have to outsource if we just can tweak our horses' genes. I rather to have updated custom feature :/

Last edited on 2018-11-05 at 11:21:51 by ωιςκεδ

And I have a response for so called freedom. There is no freedom here. You know why? Cause someone in the past decided to call horses without inbred and with smaller amount of foals as "HIGH QUALITY". This is the only reason why people are scared of inbreeding and overbreeding. Because their horse won't be "high quality" in the eyes of other players. People started to be angry/ashamed that their horses are not considered this way anymore, the others started to check some bull in their pedigree and think "ah, this horse has too many foals, it doesn't matter that it wins 2134346363984395864985 shows and has 0 non-specialty stats and 95 confo, it has too many foals so I won't buy/breed with it".

Seriously, what has to stop to release a true freedom of the way we play here is stop calling some horses as "high quality" just because they are not overbred and/or inbred and in the same moment bullying other players by suggesting that their horses are not high quality because of those irrelevant reasons. There is no "high quality" in horse which can't win a single show. My trakehners are inbred and overbred, I started with 15 mares and  only 1 or 2 (OH MY GOSH, A CRIME! xD) stallions which I didn't own. And they do great in shows, I have nice colors, nice conformation, nice stats and nice non-specialty stats. And they earn a lot. So I really can't understand what's the big deal there xD

Last edited on 2018-11-05 at 11:47:09 by Carin Ravensdale

lol. bullying... that's interesting. if you're going to accuse other players who prefers to breed for less common lines for "bullying"... then look at yourself. the breeders who prefers to overbred/inbred are bullying players who prefers to breed for less common lines. after all, you guys had been trying to force other players to overbred their horses. freedom is when players can choose if they want to overbred or NOT TO OVERBRED. .

Last edited on 2018-11-05 at 11:29:29 by Hades

@Hades, read again what I wrote, cause I didn't write that xD

Last edited on 2018-11-05 at 11:33:05 by Carin Ravensdale

It isn't so much that people prefer to play a certain way, there ARE players who will openly speak negatively about others because of how they breed their horses, such as if they breed them more than what they believe is acceptable. It isn't right. Nobody should show disrespect to another player for how they enjoy this game. 

It goes both ways. We each play in our own way, whatever is most enjoyable to us, and nobody should have to worry about being ridiculed for that. 

I have to say I agree with Carin Ravensdale. I really have seen some awful things said on the forums and in discord about other players because of how they play this game. This is why I never go to discord anymore and rarely am active on the forums. 

Also after reading the edited post, I don't think anyone here is speaking in a negative manner about players who prefer to keep their select lines, prefer to only breed horses 1-2 times and keep foals. Is it affecting the market? Quite possibly yes, this is a post for people who want to be able to have more freedom and choice to breed their horses more often of include line breeding to find others who also would like to play the same way. It isn't to demean those who do not want to do it. 

Last edited on 2018-11-05 at 11:34:11 by Glitter Cat

um you just did.
"in the same moment bullying other players by suggesting that their horses are not high quality because of those irrelevant reasons. There is no "high quality" in horse which can't win a single show."

You are suggesting that breeders who choose to not overbred's horses aren't "high quality". Therefore, you also bully them just like them suggesting that your horses aren't "high quality".

Last edited on 2018-11-05 at 11:35:57 by Hades