Flaxen And other Breeding Questions

Hi
Now lately I have gotten on this quest of having some good foundation horses to start my own lines up. prior I bought from good lines and used studs as well . So I have somewhat of a mix. So here are more newbie questions... Sorry in advance....
1.I have just noticed that there are horses that have same family members in the pedigrees and can be bred together. So the breeding block is not for for great grandparents? Or if 2 horses share the same grandparent? Then those 2 can be bred together. that is what I think I am seeing at least. So its only really immediate family with a breeding block on.

2.Flaxen, I cant find anywhere. Store horses never get flaxen? I saw it in a post is this still true or has it been revised since that post? Only way to get flaxen still is by custom horse maker or stud? I have some ff that I got by stud but i wanted to find a foundation :(
3. Are there other any other attributes that can't be gotten by foundation horses? Like sooty? I know they don't have it for Gv's but for other breeds.. I keep some appys on another account and I haven't seen it.
4. browns? I have brown as a recessive.. Do they ever come as a dom gene from the store? or are they so rare people never sell or get rid of them?
5. Wild Bay... These are super super rare... how come? Do people just not want to breed for it or are they just not created by the store often? I saw one in the Rc that was graying and I've been kicking myself about it.....
Thank you in advance!

1. Per the FAQ the following are blocked from breeding:
- Parent x Child
- Sibling x Sibling
- Uncle/Aunt x Niece/Nephew
- Grandparent x Grandchild
Older horses can have this in their pedigree, but any new horses should be blocked from breeding in this way. If there not there's probably a bug!

2. Flaxen is really really rare! I think it has a very small chance of being in store horses(Abbey hinted at allowing some rarer modifiers through on this newspost), but the guaranteed ways to get it are a color changer or custom horse, you can get it from a randomizer as well I think, but it's well, random!

3. same as above small chances possible, but guaranteed form certain methods.

4. Brown is not recessive, I forget the term, incomplete dominance? it's been too long! but brown is part of the A gene in our game and expressed as At, horses are only brown if they have AtAt or Ata with an E gene. Bay (A) is dominant over Brown , and Brown over Black in horses with the At portion of the gene. at least that's how it is on the game that I understand.

5. I didn't even realize Wild Bay was a thing! Apparently it's the A+ gene which is only available in certain breeds much like At. and it's Dominant over Bay so it goes Wild Bay(A+), Bay(A), Brown(At), Black(a). There's way more information in the Genetics Guide by Vos found: HERE if you're interested in further reading!

Hope that helps at least a bit!

I believe flax is *not* an option on a color-changer, unless this has been changed in the last few months. (I wish it were!) Unless that has been changed, then making a custom horse would be the only way to get flax on a foundation horse. (I'm personally really hoping for that to be added as a DNA tweak item!)

However, as Sabriel pointed out, Abbey did make some changes to which colors and modifiers are now available through the Equine Center. Pangare used to be a gene subject to most of the same rules as flax (only available through custom, etc.), but a few days ago Rising Dawn and I were playing around with making some store horses, and he got a Vanner with pangare. So it is very, very rare, but can happen. It's possible the same is now also true for flax, though I haven't seen it happen!

Sooty now has the DNA tweak item (which is a credit item) to adjust that gene, so that's one method of adding it to a horse. Again, I haven't seen it come out of the store, but it's possible that it's just extremely rare!

I've seen brown come more often as a "hidden" gene, covered up by bay, when it comes from the store, but I have gotten brown horses out of the Equine Center before. Though that was prior to the changes made to the genetics the store spits out, so it's possible it's gotten rarer. Even getting it with the "AAt" genotype is worth hanging onto; you have a 50/50 chance of any foals out of that horse getting the brown gene.

I like wild bay! It seems to be relatively rare out of the store, though I've seen it in a few breeds. I'm not sure why it's not more popular, except that it's maybe just not very flashy looking, so people aren't as excited by it. I like it, and wish I had more of it in my vanners and minis.

That helps me out a ton! Thank you both of you...
Just a question about the browns... Still a little confused...
if I have a bay with AAT it can never throw a brown because he's a bay? Cause bay is dom over brown, right?
If I have a chestnut mare with Ata she can throw a brown 50/50 but what color do I breed her to get the 50/50 chance? does it need to be a black stallion?
I just tried breeding them together the other day. I'm worried i'll just get another bay...

Nope AAt has a chance of throwing Brown if bred with a horse with an At or a gene. this is because a horse only inherits one of the two genes its parent posesses.
The horse must have a E gene to express brown so if you have a chestnut mare you'd need at least an Ee stallion, best if it was EE so it was guaranteed to pass down the E gene.

Gotcha, I think I understand now.
Thank You once again!

Figuring out what base color your foal would be can be tricky, because there are two different genes involved. The first is Extension (E, e) and the second is Agouti (A+, A, At, a.)

Each horse's gene has two slots (called alleles.) For example, a horse could have Ee for his Extension. One allele is E, and the other is e.

A horse only passes on one allele per gene to its foal. So the horse in the last example could pass the E, or it could pass the e.

Some alleles are dominant, some are recessive, and when there are more than two possible alleles for a gene, some can re recessive to one allele but dominant to another one. This is not called incomplete dominance. Incomplete dominance is when having one dominant allele causes a change to the color, but having two dominant alleles causes a greater change. One example of this is Cream - Crcr turns a chestnut into a palomino, but CrCr makes it a cremello.

The base colors available in this game are wild bay, bay, brown, black, and chestnut. All other colors are built on these bases with modifiers such as cream, silver, champagne, etc., or cover the base color, such as grey.

Let's start with Extension. Extension controls whether your horse can grow black hair anywhere on its body. The dominant allele is E, and the recessive is e. If your horse has the allele E (either EE or Ee), it can grow black hair. If it does not have the allele E (ee) it will not grow black hair, and will have a Chestnut base. All the other base colors (Wild Bay, Bay, Brown, and Black) require the ability to grow black hair.

Agouti controls where the black hair will grow. If your horse is ee, it does not matter what alleles it has in Agouti. It will always have a Chestnut base. If your horse has at least one E allele, the base color will depend on what it has for Agouti. The possible alleles for Agouti are, in order from most dominant to most recessive, A+ (Wild Bay), A (Bay), At (Brown), and a (Black.) Wild Bay (A+) overrides any other allele it is paired with. Bay (A) overrides everything but Wild Bay, Brown (At) overrides Black only, and Black (a) will only show up if it is paired with itself.

Here are the possible genetic combinations for all the base colors:

Wild Bay - EEA+A+, EeA+A+, EEA+A, EeA+A, EEA+At, EeA+At, EEA+a, EeA+a
Bay - EEAA, EeAA, EEAAt, EeAAt, EEAa, EeAa
Brown - EEAtAt, EeAtAt, EEAta, EeAta
Black - EEaa, Eeaa
Chestnut - eeA+A+, eeA+A, eeA+At, eeA+a, eeAA, eeAAt, eeAa, eeAtAt, eeAta, eeaa.

When you breed two horses together, they will each contribute one allele from each gene to the foal. A horse that is EeAAt (Bay) can contribute either E or e for Extension, and A or At for Agouti. A horse that is EEA+A+ (Wild Bay) will always contribute an E and an A+. If you bred the first horse to the second, the possible foals would be EEA+A, EeA+A, EEA+At, or EeA+At. All these possibilities are Wild Bay. However, if the Wild Bay parent horse were EeA+a, there would be more options, because the Wild Bay parent would carry some less dominant alleles. The foal from this pairing could be EEA+A (Wild Bay), EeA+A (Wild Bay), EEAAt (Bay), EeAAt (Bay), EEAtAt (Brown), EeAtAt (Brown), eeA+A (Chestnut), eeAAt (Chestnut), or eeAtAt (Chestnut).