Genetics Help

NEW QUESTION

I was just thinking, if I have a Dd stallion and someone has a dd mare, the chance of producing a dun foal would be 50%, correct? And if someone had a Dd mare and bred with that same stallion, would the chance be 75%, or 100%? I am not sure whether the punnett square would put the D on the top left box, and the d on the top right box, or if they would go together. I'm thinking they'd be separate, but I'm not sure, which is why I'm asking.

Second question

What makes the difference between a horse becoming frame over with Oo, and just overo with oo? I have an Oo stallion that is frame overo, but if he had oo he would have no overo at all, correct? So are all overo markings on TWH considered frame overo, and is there just a 'plain' overo?

Last edited on 2016-07-14 at 05:55:40 by wey™

That mare has a 50% chance of having a champagne foal with any of your stallions. She has one Champagne Gene and one non-champagne gene, so it's a 50/50 chance which one she will pass to her foal.

it's also totally possible to get a ChCh horse! To get that you'd need two parents that carry at least one copy of the champagne gene, as well as a bit of luck. Each parent would need to be either Chch or ChCh.

I figured it would be 50/50. I just bought a BUNCH of color pickers so hopefully whichever stallion I put her with will throw champagne babies, and hopefully a ChCh!

I was wondering about a ChCh TWH because I used the search and there are no ChCh horses! So hopefully, with some luck, I will be able to produce at least ONE of those within my program.

Thanks so much for the help!!

Since your mare is Chch, that gives her offspring a 50% chance of being Chch as well.

I suggest that you get more familiarized with the idea of genetics and how they work before breeding. Vos made a wonderful guide about genetics which can be found
Here (link)

I also tend to use this genetics calculator when dealing with genetics :3

It is possible to get ChCh on the game, both parents could be Chch x Chch, therefor, 50% of offspring would be 100% ChCh

I understand genetics, I just am not educated enough to know which colors come from which bases, and what genetics I would need to throw certain colors. I will definitely read through that guide, thank you for reminding me it exists! I was also just about to look for a calculator, so thank you again for that!

I now have lots of Chch stallions, so once I get some more coat color pickers, I will be able to have most Chch horses and can pair those together to try and make ChCh!

Overo and frame overo are the same thing. The genes would be Oo. You can't have an OO horse in this game. In real life, an OO horse would be what is called Lethal White Syndrome - the frame overo gene is connected with incomplete intestines, but if a horse has a non-frame gene, it will use that copy to create functional organs. If a horse has no normal copy of that gene (OO), it will end up pure white, but will die within a couple of days of birth, since it cannot successfully pass food through it's digestive system. Usuall, such a foal is put down at birth so it does not suffer. However, in the game, the coding simply refuses to make OO foals. Even if you breed an Oo and an Oo, you will only ever get Oo and oo.

I'm not sure how the game deals with percentages in the case of two frame overo horses being bred together. I don't know if the game treats it as an Oo bred to an oo (which would create 50% frame overo foals) or if it changes all the OO foals to Oo (which would create 75% frame overo foals.)

From a quick glance through my horses, a frame overo with no other pattern is called Frame Overo, a frame overo paired with tobiano is called tovero (and is still called tovero if other patterns are added,) and a frame overo paired with a non-tobiano pattern is called Frame Sabino or Frame Splash. I don't see anything labeled as simply an Overo.

Dun:
With heterozygous dun (Dd) bred to homozygous recessive non-dun (dd), there is a 50% chance of getting a heterozygous dun (Dd) or homozygous recessive non-dun (dd) foal.

If the heterozygous dun (Dd) stallion was bred to a heterozygous dun (Dd) mare, you would have a 25% chance of homozygous dun (DD), 50% chance of heterozygous dun (Dd), and 25% chance of homozygous recessive non-dun (dd) for a total chance of 75% dun and 25% non-dun.

With punnet squares, it doesn't matter which space you put the allele in, as long as it's for the correct horse... for example:

Stallion: Dd
Mare: Dd

----D---d
D--DD-Dd
d-- Dd-dd

----d---D
d-- dd-Dd
D--Dd-DD

----D---d
d-- Dd-dd
D--DD-Dd


Overo:
"Overo" is an umbrella term including frame, sabino, and splash.

A horse that is Oo is frame overo.
A horse that is Spl- is splash overo.
A horse that is Sb1- is sabino overo.

It's just another one of those outdated umbrella terms that makes everything confusing... and it's essentially meaningless.

Going with your horse. He is Oo so he is frame. If he was oo with no splash and no sabino, he would not be under the "overo" umbrella, but if he had sabino1 he would be considered sabino "overo". Again, outdated and useless word... just like "tovero" which means tobiano + any other non-tobiano pattern.

I'm fairly certain that Oo bred to Oo results in a 66.666667% (2/3) chance of getting Oo and a 33.333333% (1/3) chance of getting oo, because OO is simply not a possibility. It is possible that it is 50% too I guess, but would be a little less true to how genetics works. (Which might still be the case because this is a game after all).

This how I came up with my numbers:

__O___o
O|OO Oo
o| Oo oo

if you get rid of OO then you get, 2/3 chance of getting Oo and 1/3 chance of getting oo.

I can see how that would be another way of approaching the problem of no OO. I was thinking either pretend one of the parents was oo instead of Oo, or turn all the OO foals into Oo. The first way would be 50/50, and the second would be 75/25. I assumed it would be a traditional 4-way split, but I can see how you could eliminate OO as a possibility and make it a 3-way split. I suppose Abbey is the only one who would know how the coding was done.

I personally have a habit of not breeding frame overos together, based on a game I used to play that did have Lethal White programmed in. So can't gather any data on the question from my own herd. It would be interesting to see what the site-wide results have been from breeding two Frames together, but that would be a difficult thing to search.

"but that would be a difficult thing to search"

Challenge ACCEPTED. Just woke up from a nap XD

Thank you everyone for your help!

Instead of going with fractions for the chances of what I'd get with two sets of genes, I just go with percentages, and hopefully I'll be right since I have some very nice stallions.

With the dun thing I think I was just being a doof for a hot second and was thinking you would have to do the punnet square like this:

Dd. dd
Dd

dd


Or something dumb like that instead of putting one letter in each square. Anyway, as I was posting this i think I remember someone telling me that overo was yes, the umbrella, so I'm glad I've cleared that up. This whole time I was thinking a tovero would be a tobiano overo, and was thinking overo was just a paint marking. But that does make it kind of hard for breeding, seeing as you don't know if an Oo is actually going to produce a marking or not.