Save Our Sales.

@confessor - 
Overbred (10+ foals, though I consider 5+ a lot), inbred, cubed with no hopes of reorganizing stats, horses not meeting stat goals.   Those are the basics at least.  I could care less about confirmation being good or bad.  Stats being low I can get over as well if it's something of low gen with color.   Not all of my horses even make the cut because I went for brown genes over the stats they had.  

More or less, things that I can't better by breeding.  Overbreeding and inbreeding are my major ideas for what makes a bad horse, because it makes the horse useless eventually (especially when trying to avoid inbreeding).  Everyone has a different idea of it, but that's just my take on what we have to remove in order to help out the market.  There are other things that would help too, but this is just on the breeding/sales end of it.

And before we get into everyone has their own ideas of a good horse, and everyone should be allowed to breed as they please, I believe that too.  I don't sell horses that I care about on open market, I either sell privately, or by private auction.  I sell horses I'm using to improve the market at open sale, in hopes that I can throw some new life in there.  I'm not just buying every horse out there to kill, I'm buying the cheap ones that are dragging the market down while also contributing little to it.    I'm trying to give the market back just as much as I take.  

I also have more money than I actually need to keep my own stables running, and can make the money back from what I'm spending on these horses easily, so why not just take them out of the market.

See, when I buy a horse, I care about one thing, and one thing only - will this horse improve my showing program?  If it has low non-discipline stats and can be bred, that's the horse for me.

I don't care how many times it has been bred, because that won't affect showing.
I don't care how inbred it is, because that won't affect showing.
I don't care about the color or conformation.
Honestly, I don't even care if it hasn't gained a stat in its life.  A horse that wins Novice 1 shows is as valuable to me as one that wins International shows.

I can raise stats.  That's easy.  I can breed up conformation.  Color can be changed by credit item.  Inbreeding and "over" breeding means nothing as long as I can find one low non-discipline horse it is possible to breed it to.  (And as the game only restricts the very closest related of horses, it really isn't hard.)

I know there's a huge drive in this game against "over" breeding and inbreeding, but it is entirely artificial.  It doesn't affect performance in the slightest.  And there are those of us, unfashionable as we are, who would find great value in a horse that you would choose to destroy.

So I would like to request that you consider leaving those factors out of your equation, when you choose which horses to buy and cull, because you may be destroying the very horse I need for my herd.

Or, at least, refrain from destroying a horse with low non-discipline stats, even if everything else about it seems less than ideal.  Those things are like gold to me.

As someone who breeds for confirmation actively, I’m surprised no one on here has said anything about it. Confo breedig is still pretty difficult if I don’t use higher-confo,  outside lines. I find high confirmation horses to be quite valuable, even if the lines are common, because I can breed that horse to a foundation or unrelated second gen rather easily. On the contrary, I find low confo horses to be rather worthless and would get rid of a horse with less than 52 confo in a heartbeat if they only had average (at best) ns stats and a common color. I also value horses by color as well. A horse with GG, for example, isn’t worth that much to me, since I couldn’t breed out the grey within one generation no matter how hard I try. I don’t have credits, and even if I had the money to buy some, I would have difficulty because I’m Canadian and I see that the payments are via PayPal in USD, so I can’t easily add color to my herd that way. I agree with a lot of what confessor said; maybe consider outside ideas of what a “bad horse” is, since it seems to be a rather subjective thing. 

Honestly, if anyone finds a low non-discipline stat horse that seems undesirable in every other way, instead of destroying it, how about you just point me that way?  I'll take it off the market for you, gladly.  (If it matches my preferred discipline for its breed, of course.)

And Clover Note, maybe you would feel the same way about high conformation horses?

@ Clover - off topic but maybe you should bring up payment issues to Abbey/suggestion post. I never realized that it would complicated things for you. We have a lot of foreigners (If I remember correctly, I am pretty sure that Abbey is from Europe area) so I always thought everyone could buy credits.

@ Confessor and Clover,
Majority of horses that I've culled had been on the market for awhile. If it really bother you guys, then go and buy horses that meet your requirements before I cull them. You just can search them up and buy them. Alternatively, you can just look through my stable and pay 20k for horses you need. I am sorry but I am not going to check every horses' non-spec and conformation for you guys. It will just take up another hour of my time. My method is open tabs with 20+ horses and just buy them without checking for their criteria.

@Confessor -
The club also focuses on clearing out horses that have been fed cubes in a way that can't be fixed.  As for the rest, I don't particularly care how my horses show, for me that's a part of the game that doesn't really matter if I partake in.  I breed good horses, that's my end goal.  For breeders that are trying to maximize the potential of their foals, inbreeding and overbreeding are a major issue.  Stats are an issue.  Color is an issue.  Because these things make the horse we have less valuable.  Horses that people out there can buy to compete in shows.  Having a horse be pretty or not pretty doesn't matter in the showing on EV.  Neither does confirmation.  But with breeding it does.

Horses with low ns stats are not often the horses that I will even come across to cull.  Most of the ones culled end up being cubed horses with high ns stats, or ones of popular lines that are overbred (which generally have elevated ns stats) because they are contributing nothing to the game but are making it harder to find horses that would benefit both the showing and breeding ends of things.  Not every horse on EV is a worthwhile one, everyone needs to admit that, at least.

@Clover -
Paints are so overcrowded with high confo horses right now that I've actively culled 40+ and there are probably three pages of 90+ confo horses left still.  Having access to high confirmation horses won't stop happening in the breeds that already have so many on the market.

The same thing goes with color. Horses with good color (and occasionally confirmation) are still being sold that would be constituted as a good horse.  Removing the ones that aren't actively adding to the game won't hurt your ability to find the ones you need. 

Truthfully I’ve never tried to buy credits, as I don’t have the spare cash at the moment. I just noticed that there was mention of USD under the purchase of credits via PayPal, now that I’ve looked at it a second time it may just be the rate that Abbey uses, if I were to send the equivalent CAD I might receive my credits? Not sure, but I’ll make a suggestion later today after I take a better look at things maybe to clarify currency rates? I’m really mostly not able to buy credits because I’m a student on a budget, sorry about the confusion there!

Also, I didn’t mean to imply that I would automatically buy every horse with good confo, stats, and color that are part of the breeds I own, I don’t have that much space haha. What I mean to say is that various aspects about a horse should be taken into consideration before its culled. If you’re not checking ns, confo, or color, Hades, what do you consider to be a horse worth culling? Even if it’s been on the market for awhile, it doesn’t mean it’s a bad horse. I thought horses with unreasonably high and unchangable ns were also considered for culling, so by proxy wouldn’t low ns not be considered for culling, assuming their lines are clean and not overbred? I’d find it counterproductive to cull horses that, if overbred, are otherwise “good”. I’m just confused and inquiring.

Edit:
I posted this at the same time another user explained this more in-depth, I think since I’m not used to seeing lines that are so overcrowded with the same lines (ie I only really actively breed dressage trakenhers and show jumping dutch warmbloods, most of these horses don’t have very crowded lines, I think that’s answered most of my questions!

Last edited on 2018-10-30 at 09:32:12 by Clover Note Stables

@Clover Note Stables: You can convert currency on paypal, just saying. So you are still able to buy credits, it just converts the CAD to USD when you pay. 

How do you see this impacting smaller and less competitive breeders? I guess my concern is that the "little" players like myself will end up falling into the target of what is being culled, especially if I don't have the lines or points to be "valuable" yet. I especially worry about those of us that don't spend money on credits, to "fix" treating. I do believe that we have an issue with horses losing value, but how do we make sure we aren't discouraging small accounts?

@ clover note.. hello my fellow Canadian player! I buy credits all the time, have been for yrs.. Pay Pal will automatically convert the dollar amount for you... also, another way to go is to buy pre paid visa or mastercards and pay that way.. its pretty easy : )

@ confessor- I definitely agree with you about seeking out the low nss horses. I would keep them as well , just to show.. Unfortunately, all the horses Ive found thusfar have been cubed to the gills and their non spec stats are ridiculously high , making them useless in the show ring...sigh.. 
I personally, dont worry about my line personal line breeding, as I tend to keep my horses to myself and i do breed " real world style" which means, a stallion can have multiple foals.. heck Secretariat had over 600!!  Im just trying to protect my lines that have come into public hands and destroyed so many beautiful appies with over cubing.. and disregard of maintaining and breeding down nss..

I consider myself fortunate, that through years of breeding, my lined horses now have single digit ( many with 0s) non spec stats.. so I can actually take a horse thats been cubed to useless and breed down the non spec stats while at the same time perserving my lines and finding completely new, outside lines to use..

Im actually currently starting a qh project with some horses listed as the highest statted qhs in the game. Ill be using my low nss horses to cross with them in an effort to reduce the nss stats and maintain high overall stats. This will hopefully provide me with some decent show quality horses in the long run.. Im all about the low nss stats/overall high stats.. I dont even look at confo.. as Im not a confo breeder..

Geeeeez I babble too much!! 

Last edited on 2018-10-30 at 09:48:41 by 🌀 WINDSPUN APPALOOSAS

@ Canterbury,

In some way, I am helping those players. I brought their horses when nobody else would. In return, they get money that they need to continue playing. Obviously, I can't make everyone happy. For those who want to buy horses for cheap: you have access to RC, Equine Center, Market, and horses that haven't been culled. So far, I never had issues with players complaining about lack of cheap horses. I've been culling 10-30 horses daily for 3 months and I only reached $2k horses three times. The amount of horses get dumped is much higher than the amount of horses get culled.

"Over" breeding and inbreeding is a problem only because it is the fashion in EV these days to look down on such horses.  That's the only reason they don't sell all that well, and that is a fashion that is slowly starting to change.

In fact, "over" breeding and inbreeding are very valuable tools when it comes to actually increasing the value of your herd over time.  If I have three or four extremely low non-discipline stat stallions, I can keep a herd going indefinitely, and will eventually bring the non-discipline stat levels of the entire herd down to that level.  It takes a LOT of inbreeding, and those stallions would have a LOT of foals, which many will turn their noses up over, but I would have a power-house show herd, and I will be raking in the money without having to worry about how my horses sell.

Truly low non-discipline stats are so rare, and so difficult to create, that it is an enormous loss to the game every time one is destroyed without passing on its traits.

As for buying them up before you get to them - if you think it takes a lot of time to buy cheap horses, try searching through pages upon pages for the ones I want.  You can't search for low non-discipline stats, and I personally will buy from any breed (though I do narrow down the discipline to make it easier to match breeding pairs.)  I can literally search for multiple hours a day.

All I'm asking is, if you come across a horse with some really low numbers in their stats (I'm talking multiple numbers under 20), please consider not destroying them, because they are worth their weight in gold.  You have to scroll down anyway to buy the horse.  Just glance at the stats on the way down, and you may actually save yourself some time by not having to scroll down any further.

@Windspun and @maple

Oh ok that makes more sense now! For some reason I didn’t think of how PayPal would treat currency, I’ve never had and don’t currently have a PayPal account so I don’t really know how that works at the moment. Good to know for the future!

Last edited on 2018-10-30 at 11:39:44 by Clover Note Stables

So this blew up a bit, so if I miss something important feel free to point it out to me.

@ Canterbury -
This will give you access to good horses that are still left for sale, and if its your horses getting culled, you would benefit from making the sale of your horse either way.  The club doesn't talk to the actual breeders of these horses, I actually extremely discourage it because I don't want to stop people who are enjoying their game their own way, I just want to clean up the tail end of things so that the value of the horses left on the market will on average be higher, benefitting us all.

@ confessor - 
Its not a fashion that will change with us all.  Those looking for the best chance to sell their lines will prefer horses with gens that aren't flooding the market.  As multiple of us have stated, the horses we have culled so not have low nss, and I dont think we'd really come across one of them unless it was someone looking to breed them down - that much effort would certainly catch a higher price on a horse over what we're aiming at now.

@maple, windspun, & Hades -
Thanks for fielding questions while I napped.  XD Didn't expect this to get So busy. 

I think this is actually really good. I recently joined the site and see so many of certain breeds such as Paints, Appys and QH. I legit just saw someone selling a herd of 16 QH's all with great bloodlines and stats yet no bids made on them.