Have You Noticed?

That foundations transferred from EV1 to this version just don't do as well in competitions? I only noticed it today.

My Clydesdale herd is ~1/2 from EV1 and the other 1/2 from EV2. I've been having some horses that just haven't been doing well in competitions. While others are doing amazing, I'd been trying to figure out what was causing this difference. Today I arranged my clyde division by stats just to see what was going on (something I've done multiple times before now, but never came to a conclusion). I was reading the names of the horses who aren't performing well aloud to myself, when I realized that they all seemed to be horses I (or others) created on EV1. So I went through the horses and EVERY horse under 410 stats was imported from EV1, every horse. Only five horses above 410 are from EV1. Another thing that is interesting is that I messed up with three of my mares, Colinda, Biranna, and Serna, as I forgot to put tack on them until they were ~5 years old. When I tacked them at five they had ~250 stats, now every single one of those mares has over 410 stats. I believe (judging by their conformation) that all three of those mares were created on this version of the game. Whereas Free Falling who imported from the old game and who has always had 5/5 tack on her has only 352 stats. This difference is astonishing to me, and I can't seem to figure out why this would be true.

Has anyone else noticed this? Do you have any theories as to why this might be true?

I would point out that all my (still alive) imported clydes were under the age of one when I imported them in, they only ever competed on EV2. They remained unlocked during the "stat crisis" and only today did many of them actually get above the 400 stat mark (thanks to my desperation to try and gain them some stats so I hand enter all of them into shows yesterday).

I would also point out that my DWB herd (excluding 2 pairs I bought from Andromeda) are all from this version of the game. They are all younger than my Clydes and all but 2 have over 400 stats already.

What are your thoughts on this? Am I crazy, or have you seen something similar?

I checked my 11 year old herd which is half EV1 half EV2. I think I had the EV1 horses locked at 6 years old so they've probably been training together for 5 weeks or so. Some are near 300, others over 500, all treated the same on the old EV and the same now on new EV. If I had to guess, it's because of more options to earn stats. Before there were a few every now and then from riding and you got some from treats but now we have training, showing, treating etc. I don't know how much of an impact it has but I did not show on the old EV.

It sort of makes sense they're doing better because, completely hypothetically with fake numbers, say I'd gotten my horses on old EV up to 200 stats and my new EV horses at the same age hit 250, close enough to be in the same grade, the new EV horse is gonna do better and gain more stats and level up faster.

That's just what makes sense to me, no idea if it's accurate.

Last edited on 2016-06-02 at 07:39:39 by losteh;;

I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE

My second and third gens from the old version are doing terribly compared to the foundations of the new version and I can't work out why for the life of me because they should be doing so much better than they are. :c

@ losteh;; But all my horses were within one year of each other, so the EV1 horses would've had ~165 stats at 3 and the EV2 horses would've had ~115 stats at 3 (due to ye olde stat crisis) so the EV1 horses should be doing better than the EV2 horses by your logic. Right? I don't know, maybe because they are competing with EV2 horses that are their stat range but older, so the EV2 horses do better?

@ mapes : I've noticed the same with my 2nd - 4th gens too. this dude was rocking and rolling on EV1. Now he never seems to win; I can't figure out what to do about it. I've actually decided to restart my QHs from scratch as I just don't want to deal with the mess anymore (they have other problems too, granted caused by my lack of experience when I started out with them).

Last edited on 2016-06-02 at 07:54:59 by insomniaglet

I have 250 stat 4 year olds from the old ev and my new foundations only hit 130 stats by 3 years old, so technically the four year olds should do way better than the three year olds. I'll be keeping an eye on them to look for a difference.

But I'm noticing the drop more in pedigree horses than stores. I have a couple of pairs that are both from the old ev, both started out with similar stats and both treated exactly the same, yet one's fallen behind by 400 stats and I'm having to swap a lot of pairs around because I'm not willing to take a stat hit when the horse shouldn't be failing

@ mapes : True... but your 4 year olds from EV1 aren't competing with 4 year olds from EV2, they are competing with ~7 year olds from EV2. Which might be the problem. Older horses do better in competition (I believe that it right?), so your pedigreed 4 year olds are actually at a disadvantage when competing. Maybe this is what is causing problems for my EV1 foundations too. Who knows for sure though.

The 4 year olds and the 3 year olds are both foundation sets. I didn't think age was a factor in showing? But maybe.

I thought age was a factor in showing. Which would still meaning that EV1 horses with 250 stats at four would compete with EV2 horses that have 250 stats (which seems to happen at 6 or seven). I thought your were still talking about pedigreed lines, but I still think the logic applies? I don't know my brain is starting to feel like mush.

But if age isn't a factor in showing success, I have no idea what might be happening.

On a side note, my second gens from EV2 (born here from parents raised on EV1) are kick-butt. Big n Dainty, at eight already has 642 stats.

Last edited on 2016-06-02 at 08:20:24 by insomniaglet

Mmm. My foundation Lippi's from the previous EV are doing very badly in competitions as well. :/ They're gaining stats just fine, but my rescue QH has 30+ wins yet my Lippi's only have 1-5.

I don't know that age affects how a horse shows exactly, but training level does affect luck, so a horse that has been trained longer will show better. That can add up to an older horse showing better, if both have been consistently trained since the beginning, but a younger horse that has been trained will do better than an older horse that has not been trained.

Another thing to look at is what I call non-specialty stats. That's the dead weight that your horse needs to drag with it whenever it shows. How do those stats compare between your old version foundations, vs. your new version?

How long did your old version foundations live in the old version? I did not lock my horses during the "stat crisis" and still found that my horses gained stats much quicker in the new version than the old version, even without training. Of course, with training, they're improving even quicker, but my 14 year old foundations that were born in the new code and were never locked are all in the 600's and 700's, and I don't think that foundations ever reached that high in the old code. If your old code foundations spent much of any time earning stats in that code, they will be behind.

Other than that, I can't think why an old code foundation would do worse than a new code. None of my current foundation horses are from the old code, so I can't make that comparison in my own herd.

All have been trained since training was released (they were about 10 when training was released, I think) and have the same amount of training. All are at level 4 training right now.

All have specialty specific stat gain, other than the occasional feeding of carrots to I Named Him Bob (first clyde to appear after my Quarter Horses, lol).

The EV1 foundies are 4 days older than my EV2 foundies, I bought them the moment I saw the new Clyde art. So I feel that should have very little effect on them now.

I just now checked the non-specialty stats of the four horses you mentioned.

Colinda, Biranna, and Serna all have a total non-specialty in the 60's, which is normal for a foundation. I've found them to range from the 50's to the 70's at birth. Careful treating will keep a foundation there all its life.

Free Falling has a total non-specialty in the 90's. That tells me that this horse probably got treated out of its specialty at some point. A non-specialty total that high can definitely hold a horse back.

The rest of your foundations all show a slightly elevated speed stat, but the better performing ones have pretty much normal levels in the other two non-specialty slots. I didn't do all the math to come up with totals for everyone, but it might be a worthwhile thing to do, and see if, in general, the non-specialty total gets lower the better the horses get.

I would expect to see Colinda, Biranna, and Serna to continue to excel in your herd, given the same treating, training, and showing treatment as the rest.

The good thing about elevated non-specialty totals is that it is pretty easy to breed down from there. My horses that total in the 90's and above have all had foals with totals similar to a foundation at birth. I would pair the higher totals with the lower totals, to balance out the herd.

Another way to fix a high non-specialty total that was caused by treating would be to change the specialty. You would probably want to either change the whole herd, or change the problem horses, and then change them back, because breeding two different specialties together causes high non-specialty totals in the foal. It's an expensive technique, but very effective. You can also do this on a newborn foal, to give it its lowest possible non-specialty total. You can set the foal to a specialty you don't want, and then change it to a specialty you do want, and some of the birth stats will actually switch to favor your new specialty. You can even wait to do that until it turns three, and spend those years treating with peppermints or something else that raises stats quickly but doesn't restrict itself to the specialty.

A total of 90 vs 60 may not sound that much, but I have found in my herd a huge difference in how well my horse will show. 30 stat points is more than half a level, so it's like forcing your horse to constantly compete against horses a level ahead of it.

So that 30 stats difference could be causing the problem? Dang.

I was just typig out a rant about how I don't know why the stats are off, but then realized that for those 4 days my clydes on my spare account were given peppermints! I almost never used peppermints on the old game, so I had a bunch on my account and thought I'd use them until the recode was released.

I can afford to change all of their specialties once, but I can't afford to change them all back or to buy tack then upgrade it all in another specialty. I may just have to absorb that mistake and hope for better in the next generation. Which is just frustrating.

It is very frustrating.

My first three Gypsy Vanners, Oak, Ash, and Thorn, are foundations bought on the same day, but as time went on, Ash lagged far behind Oak and Thorn. They had the same tack, and received the same treatment, or so I thought.

Today, at 18 years old, Oak is an R3 at 833 stats, Thorn is an R2 at 751 stats, and Ash is an L5 at 595 stats.

When I calculated their non-specialty stats, Oak has 62, Thorn has 65, and poor Ash has 80.

Because horses are sorted alphabetically in their divisions when treating, Ash was the first in his division, and his division for most of his life was right after my show jumping Chincoteagues. All it took was a few days of inattentive treating, and he gained just enough speed and agility to hold him back in driving.

My Appaloosas created at the same time did not have the same problem, because they were the first division in my treating list.

I have some high non-specialty Chincoteagues that I bred from parents with different specialties, back before I realized that was not a good thing. They are lagging in stats, but their offspring do just fine. They're pretty much at foundation level when it comes to non-specialty totals. They'll do OK in shows, though probably not as well as my foals that had more successful parents. In another generation, I probably won't be able to tell the difference.

I've readjusted the four worst to help them out as best I can, I think for now I'll use the riding school and slowly adjust horses as I can afford it. But it still smarts.

Thanks for the information, I knew that specialty stats needed to be the highest but I was aware that such a small deviation could cause such a big problem.