DELETE

DELETE....

Last edited on 2023-12-17 at 16:08:15 by Lucia

I feel your pain.
 
I am almost convinced that there is no rhyme or reason to conformation breeding!

You can make the most careful parings (I've never used a spreadsheet, just try very hard to have a high score where the mate is low) and get a total bust with no improvement at all. 

You can also make the same pairing 10 different times and get ten completely different results!

That's the fun and challenge of conformation breeding! :)

I to pair up horses with conformation scores that are strong where the other one is weak. 

And by conformation score; I'm talking about the individual points for the head, neck, back, etc.

If after 3 breedings, i don't get a foal with better conformation than it's weakest parent; the pair are split up, paired with someone else. Rarely, do i delete one; if i do, it's a foundation.

Last edited on 2023-04-08 at 03:19:02 by 💜ℱℯ𝒶𝓉𝒽ℯ𝓇 (ℱ𝒢) 💜

I used a spreadsheet to help but it barely made difference. I had this one pair who gave me two foals with a good conformation average. One is 60.15 and another one is 59.55. I had high hope for the third foal from this pair. I got a colt with an average of 52.66. It's so random! That's when I start to wonder if we are trying to breed horses based on an incorrect formula.

The parents definitely carry more role in determining the random factor. For that particular pair, I noticed that all 3 foals have conformation in the 60s if both parents are in their 60s. If one of the parents has a conformation in the 50s, then the foals range from 60s to 50s but not 40s.

The larger difference between the parents, the higher risk of random factors.

The foal with 38, and her parents have 68 and 40 so it's a huge difference. It makes me wonder if I should've tried getting parents in a similar range instead of pairing the highest with the lowest.

A small foundation sample. But as you can see, the higher the difference between the parents' conformation, the more likely to have foals with conformation in the 40s or low 50s.
An average + 15 definitely isn't happening. I never get foals with conformation in the high 70s or 80s.

Last edited on 2023-04-04 at 15:58:00 by Lucia

Oh my gosh would you be interested in sharing that spreadsheet? 

This is well and good on paper but in the real world you would have to take in to account genes from grandparents and great grandparents, as some genes skip generations as they do in colour genes. All I do is much simpler. Breed the higher average conformation stats with another higher average and you will eventually get a foal with and even higher average. Every foal is different. For example, breed say a 65 with a 66 and you will eventually get a 67. I'm currently breeding Irish Cobs (Gypsy Vanners). For conformation I now have a couple of 68 foals. So the lower rated foals will not be bred only compete or sold. So I will then breed the 66,67 and 68 averages. It takes a while if you breed from foundation stock. Using a custom horse can sometimes throw up a higher average ranging from 62-69. An example I bred the same stallion with the same mare 3x and got three different results. 

Pedigree of 68

























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@ Broadbridge, that foal is gorgeous!

Since you used custom horses, their conformation range is much more well-rounded. The difference between Sire and Dam is pretty low. Therefore, the foal has a more balanced range.

Your foal help me confirm that I needed to reevaluate how I paired my horses. Pairing a high with a low isn't a suitable method while pairing the same range together seems to be the best move.

Instead of pairing 60s with 40s, I probably should've paired 40s with 40s or 50s instead.

I totally agree! I own one of that filly's half-sister. 😊

I can't remember exactly but I think it might be based off of the parents range and up to +/- 10 of their traits and not the average. I think that makes more sense for your results. I always thought it was the average myself on the formula I was given but maybe it was written wrong. So it would be generally better to pair closest traits as it reduces the total range. What I usually see is people matching poors to goods at first, and then trying to match the traits closely once all the traits are "good". 

I've been reviewing all existing pairs and their foals. The results are crazy as heck. However, I do notice that the foals are less likely to have a large difference if the parents are in a similar range. However, there are a few cases where the foals ended up having a larger difference but it's much more rarer.

HOWEVER. The larger difference the parents have, the foals seem to have the chance of increasing more points but the risk of getting low points are higher. 

So, basically, we have to choose between:
low risk with low points gain/loss
high points gain but high risk of high points loss

I think I will leave my current pairs alone since I do not want to deal with repairing all of my inactive pairs lol. However, I definitely will be more careful when I start pairing the 2nd gens. I think my goal is to try to bring more balanced conformation for 3rd gens even if they don't increase much. I just want to try to get rid of the 30s and 40s at least.