*Valuation system in clubs

I agree with Rem, a lot of hard work is put into foundation horses to reach 900+ stats.. I don't like the idea of them being x'ed out purely on that basis. Besides, lots of players look for foundation bred studs to better create cleaner lines. So I feel as though they are important as well. I think a minimum of 900 stats and at least 60% confo foundations should be allowed into the higher class evaluations.

While I really like the idea of an inspection/grading system for the clubs I feel like it should be a system automated thing of agreed upon parameters.  So perhaps an Elite rated horse could be a horse that has over a 90 average conformation, 1,000 plus stats, and produced 2 foals over 90 conformation or achieved 100 first place finishes in their sport.  A Premium rated horses could be a horse over 80 average conformation, 800 plus stats, and produced 2 foals of similar quality or achieved 100 placed finishes in their sport.  Probably come up with 2 more ratings and an unrated/declined for horses beneath a 50 average conformation.  

Or perhaps in lieu of a 'register horse' button on a breed specific club it could be 'enter for inspection' button and the based on a predefined set of parameters your horse is graded and either entered into the registry with it's grade or denied registry.  Conformation should be the heavy hitter but desired stat limit, offspring production and show results should also factor in and perhaps age of the horse.

Those are just my thoughts on this, I like the premise either way.

There has to be the ability for foundation or post-recode foundation lined horses to obtain top classes or you are intentionally excluding players who do not have older lined horses. It is very very hard to improve conformation (unless there is some change to the system). I used an algorithm to pair my new foundation line for best conformation matches, bred them three times and took the best conformed of the three foals and the second generation conformation average is only 3% higher. To breed up to 90s it will take about 10 generations at that rate... around 4 years if also breeding for stats.

(I think this was a huge oversight. Same with pre-recode lined horses have single-digit non-specialty stats which now appear to be impossible to breed for [if the foal stats calculator is correct].)

Forgive me if someone has mentioned stuff I do already. It's a bit hard to read everything on my phone as it tends to be finicky with scrolling.

I think registration and grading should be automatic and in the system; not something that can be fiddled with by presidents, at least in the official breed clubs. Player-made groups can be totally different. However in the 'big official' ones for each breed, it's not really fair for requirements to keep being changed, shifted, or fiddled with since registration currently doesn't even give us anything. In real registries, the rules don't normally just change. Any updates to rules require a lot of work, talk, and the agreement of a lot of people. Just one person in charge doesn't get to do it, at least not in large ones like Arabians, Thoroughbreds, etc. So personally I think registration and any grading system should be determined by the game itself, not just one person for ease and fairness.

Here are my rough ideas for grading levels. We could call them Stars (like a 1-star horse to 5-star horse maybe?) or something similar? Or Grade 1-5 and then Elite?

Accepted/Registered - basically all this means is the horse is a purebred. It costs the $500 and basically means your horse is this breed. Like some Warmbloods do 'Foal Books'; it just acknowledges the horse's bloodlines/purity.

Grade 1/ 1-Star - the horse has to have either x amount of stats (maybe 200/250?) or a certain level of conformation (55 maybe?). Basically it's for pureblood horses that look like they have at least potential to be good, solid horses that represent the breed well.

Grade 2/2-Star - the horse has either x amount of stats (maybe 450?) or higher conformation (65+).

Grade 3/3-Star - this is for horses with a minimal amount of showing points (maybe 3000? 5000? since they don't seem to be too hard to get?). No requirements for conformation or stats. This is purely for a horse that has proven itself as a strong, active competitor (so an Accepted horse could go straight to 3-star).

Grade 4/4-Star/Premium - This is for horses that met at least 2 of 3 requirements: x amount of stats (500? 600?), Conformation of a higher level (70+ maybe?), and a certain level of showing points. (maybe 5000+?). So basically if a horse has the stats and the conformation, it's permitted. Or the stats and the showing, so even a Foundation with 40 conformation could get it.

Elite/5-Star - This are for the 'best of the best'. Horses that meet all three requirements. It's the same requirements as Premium, but basically the horse has to have the conformation, the showing ability, and the high stats to balance. It's like the 'best of the best' with Warmbloods; they only allow ones with the highest conformation, proven ability, and often showing.

My general idea is you pay the flat $500 to be registered. And all horses that are the correct breed start as Accepted/Registered. Getting 'Graded' cost extra.

After that, you pay $100 to be "Evaluated". It can be at any time you want so you could go from Registered to Elite in one click if you wait that long, etc. Basically you click the button, the game checks if your horse's stats, conformation, and showing points and sticks them in the proper level for you. No fuss, no muss for the presidents. 

Maybe on the horse's page there could be stars that light up? Or a little text that says 'Grade 1' or 'Elite' or whatever under the club? Something like this maybe?

You make a vety valid point Almare that I had not considered, perhaps to garner the top rating you either need 90+ conformation and 500+ stats or 55+ conformation, 800+ stats and 100 placed shows, the next rating could be 80+ conformation and 400+ stats or 50+ conformation, 700+ stats and 75 placed shows.  Numbers could be moved around but it would allow for foundations to achieve the highest rating with work by the owner.  The rating could automatically update as new levels were reached

I like the idea of displaying star ratings or category/tag name(s) under the club registration details on the horse's page, as shown by Snaffle.

I disagree that this system should be consistent across all clubs. Different clubs or groups of players have different ideas of what constitutes a 'good' horse, so they should be able to independently define the requirements of their different categories, or whether they have them at all. A conformation-based club may prefer to differentiate horses by conformation only, regardless of their stats or other attributes, while a colour-based club may categorise horses based on their genes. In the latter case it may not make sense to have a star rating system, as their categories could include things like "Silver Horses" or "Cream Horses", where one isn't necessarily better than the other, just different. Also, some breeds are more popular than others, so standards that may be considered high for one breed may be considered more standard for another. Under the new club system we may also see fun registries emerging, such as those that register horses based on name themes. I see no reason to discourage such a thing by implementing strict requirements of clubs and their registries.

I don't object to some level of automation in the registration of horses or the assignment of categories/tags, but as we've seen just in this thread alone there's lots of different attributes a horse can be judged on, and a system that was able to automatically assess all of these and match them up to a club's requirements may be prohibitively complex, so it's plausible that only a basic level of automation may be possible, and club admins will still have to manually check some horses.

Also, I think it should be possible for the club to add or remove tags from a registered horse at any time, as the horse may change over time so that it meets other tag requirements, or no longer meets the requirements of a tag it currently has. A good example would be a horse originally assigned a 'Silver Class' tag who increases in stats so that it is now too good for silver, and should now be placed in 'Gold Class'. Automating this would also be very helpful.


A small side note: official breed clubs shouldn't be considered different to player groups, as the new club system is coming in at the end of the month, which will mean there will soon be no difference between the two.

The characteristics by which horses are assigned to classes must be specified by clubs owners (according to what was agreed upon with club members). That's one of my main points. This would allow more involvement in the game for players.  Otherwise, if the assignment is in the system, then there is no reason for clubs existence. 

The idea of a horse changing is exactly why I suggested an option to have an 'Evaluation' at any time for a flat fee. If your horse's color, stats, whatever change, you can get it Evaluated and get moved to a different Grade, Level, whatever you want to call it.

Now, I understand they will be run in basically the same way, but I figured the 'Official Breed Clubs' would be more like officially recognized registries.

I mean, as a real life example anyone could, say, start a register for "Flaxen Arabians" and keep track, etc. However, they wouldn't get the same benefits as having their horses registered with an official, recognized registry for Arabians (such as the IAHA).

I was thinking of the "set" Grading System being a bonus for the "official registries" and having flexible ones for the player clubs since those clubs would likely be smaller, much more specialized, etc. It would give the 'Registries' a way to be a bit different than the clubs and offer some small bonus of at least having a set grading system.

However, all I can see from having it is a bit of frustration as a club could constantly change the system. It's hard to improve if you don't know what you're aiming for was my outlook. If you know 'official grading' will have x-y-z as a requirement, you can aim, but if it can change at any time on a whim, it's a lot more frustrating because 150 stats might be enough one week and then you need 250 next week, etc.

Hmm....

What about something like an "official Grading" system for the "Official Breed Registries" that's unique to them (so basically say...any purebred Arabian in the Arabian Club can aim for that), but also the addition of supplemental ones that the owner can add to focus on whatever they want (color, conformation) as bonus 'awards' (sort of like in the AQHA you can get a plaque for Trail Riding this many miles or winning this many ribbons, etc.) 

The player created ones (instead of the game ones) don't have the 'official' system so they can design theirs however you want (such as strictly on conformation, etc.). 

Personally I think the 'official' registries should have some...official thing to set them a little apart. If they're supposed to be representing the game's version of the IAHA, AQHA, etc. they should have some "official" standards, I would think? Like the automated registration if your horse is the correct breed. Player-made clubs could be more selective though and approve each other, just like the smaller clubs can in real life.

re. foundation horses - surely that should be something that the individual club can decide?

It could also be that manual registry checking can be turned on/off (or auto registry can be bought like auto show and auto care) so if your registry didn't want to accept foundations, or only accepted foundations, you'd have a way to work around that too. 

We do already have a sort of grading system through how horses are graded as Novice, Local, Regional, National and International. This could be incorporated as a way to set a minimum/maximum stat requirement per grade too as each grade has a different stat requirement. Foundations all start as N1, so you could set it so a basic requirement is N3 (or say a basic requirement is 65+ conformation) as a way to deter people from registering foundations. Of course, you will get some foundies who become N3 as they become a higher level and their stats increase. 

If crossbreeding is introduced, I do think breed percent should also be a basic requirement - so if you created a registry for Arabian crossbreeds, you could set a basic requirement for all horses to have 50% Arabian blood to be Class 3. And then for horses who have 50% Arabian blood and 200 stats to be Class 2, and 50% Arabian blood, 200 stats and 70+ conformation to be Class 1.

I also wonder if height could also be something to introduce as a requirement? I know in some RL breed registries (specifically Connemara's, for example) horses considered 'overheight' can only be registered as the lowest class because they're taller than the breed standards/guidelines (I think the same can be said if they're too small?)

I'm fairly sure for Connemaras, anything over 14.2hh is considered overheight, and anything under 12.2hh is considered under height, and can only be registered as a Class 1 or Class 2. I think it's the same for cream Connemaras with blue eyes, they can only be registered as Class 1 or Class 2. I know we don't have Connemaras on EV, but it could be seen as similar to how solid coloured Paints are registered slightly differently - a club could decide one of their registry requirements is that for Paints to be Class 1, they have to have a coat pattern and can't be solid.