EV Inflation from Riding Schools?

Demure, I hope you don't feel like we're trying to be mean.

I'm a player that wants to do things without getting a lot of attention. I rarely talk to other members unless I am messaged lots :D And I don't do clubs. I love this game because I don't have to compete. I can leave everyone else alone and do my own thing. After competing in LIFE all day it's nice to do something that I want and not have to deal with my bank in EV starving too.

The problem with riding school is NOT that it serves an alternative to showing; that's a great benefit. The problem is, money and items generated from riding school populate out of thin air. Neither the school host or the person whose horses are enrolled have to pay anything, but they both wind up with money, and one gets items and stats, too.

With shows, the host pays an upfront fee to buy enough training arenas to even be able to host shows. Then there's an entry fee that serves to pay the host back and fill the prize pool. All of that money is flowing through the economy, not just cropping up out of nowhere.

I still argue that there needs to be an investment in riding schools--from both sides.

And for the record, Kuk, I had $4k in riding school fees yesterday. So my assumption is someone with a large herd came in and enrolled all of their horses. It doesn't happen for me often, but it does happen.

EDIT: Wrote this from my phone. Don't mean to come off short or rude; just voicing my concerns. I think it's a great addition, I just think it needs some tweaks long-term.

Last edited on 2017-02-15 at 14:12:31 by Sonoma

I've been playing this game for over 8 years and have seen lots of changes.

I rarely buy artwork, only happens if it hits my fancy, and will capture the temperaments of my characters. Most if not all of my money + credits goes straight back into my herds/deluxe account. I've learned how to save, earn, and spend money wisely over the years.

I love the new activities that Abbey has introduced into EV, as it helps my horses to become even better, given more opportunities to players to earn money, get better horses, and introduce new lines into our various breeds available on the game. :)

The Riding School is awesome! I can stick the horses that don't have less than 60 non-specialty stats in there while I show the rest of my horses; including when the others that can be shown aren't at the top of their grade. :3

I just wish I could get hold of EVC without spending 90k+ for each one! Other than that, I love everything EV has to offer. :3

-Feather

Last edited on 2017-02-15 at 13:49:04 by ♥ Feathered Gold ♥

I would hate to see riding school change. That's my main means of income. My art is not that great, the horse market is down, and I don't have the time to show my entire herd, not to mention showing is more likely to loose me money then gain any. Without it I'd be bankrupt. You don't really make that much money on riding school. My only suggestion is if you want to cut it down, cut down on the treats given, not the money earned. If you cut riding schools profit, I probably couldn't afford a lot of the things I want (and I have used credit sales for a lot of my income.) I don't think riding schools are the problem here. It's not the people who put their horses in riding school that are getting rich. Like Wey said, most of the money seems to go into art sales. (I didn't mean that people who have been here longest are the richest, but that they have a higher potential to me richer.)

Sonoma, I like that you brought up the upfront cost of arenas and the "show fee" as an example of how the money flows through the economy.

There is the argument to be made that the money earned from Riding Schools doesn't just come out of "thin air." It comes at the price of paying for a Deluxe membership which gets ya a stable which gets ya a riding school. For a year is 40EVC. Even at 50k/1EVC that is *a lot* of money for an initial upfront investment (at least 2mil), much like the arenas.

I see it this way: Say EV is a bank. I and others purchase a deluxe membership in exchange for perks that let us earn money, or rather save money by becoming self-sufficient (arenas, stables, riding schools, etc). The EVD equivalent of the 40credits doesn't just disappear, but put into a pool along with every other person who uses EVC to pay for their Deluxe memberships. EV as an entity is sitting on tens of millions of dollars in cashvalue from the credits (assuming that 1EVC is worth $50k). EV is taking that all that cash value that it is sitting on and "feeding it back into the economy" via the Riding Schools. And, because *everyone* has the same opportunity to utilize the Riding schools, it doesn't leave any members behind.

If anything, Riding schools let Deluxe members recoup the initial upfront investment costs of 1) the deluxe membership worth at least 2 mil 2) all those darn arenas whose earning potential are hobbled a bit by the show limit even faster than before (provided you don't make art or use your real money to purchase a steady stream of income by selling credits, much like I did when I first started).

I mean, if anything were to come out of thin air, it's that initial purchase/transfer of Real-Life $$$ into an in-game currency in the form of credits.

BTW I do think it's wonderful that there are a number of people who *care* about the game functioning to the best of its ability. That's truly awesome.

I agree with the others who said it's not the riding schools that are a problem. I joined EV last August - riding schools have been a thing the entire time I've been here. And I've watched the average price of credits go down, go back up, keep going up, now they're starting to go back down, slowly. It's how a free economy works. We all want to make money so we're going to sell things for as much as people will buy them for. If the demand for credits is a lot higher than the supply, which is what I saw happen suddenly around Thanksgiving time last year, prices go up. If you don't agree with the prices, don't pay them. When enough people refuse to pay outrageous prices, they'll go down.

Show prices went up after the change in the showing system. What I don't think the people who see their shows sit at 0 entries realize is that the chart showing how many shows have been made for each grade is misleading because it doesn't tell you how many horses enter shows in that grade. 30 shows a day is not enough for some disciplines and too many for others. If you don't want wasted show slots you need to search for shows in each grade & discipline and see which ones have less than 2 pages of shows open. It's a little more work but this is my secret to rarely having 0 entry shows. Not to mention how frustrating it is to show horses in the less popular disciplines (endurance and racing) and struggle to find shows with 4+ entries because there are 5 pages of shows for a grade that's lucky to have 100 horses show in a day.

Ducky, I agree--it is an investment on the part of the deluxe members. But then those who host the riding schools aren't the ones reaping the biggest benefits. Obviously those using it are a mix of deluxe and basic, but even assuming you were getting $4k a day from use of your riding school, it would take you 500 days to recoup that $2 million, and people don't seem to be experiencing that kind of use on a regular basis.

I think the post was not about the validity of riding school as an option, but whether or not it's causing inflation. And I still posit that it is, because you are still creating inserting new money into the economy at a high level without circulating any additional EVD through, and that will, over time cause inflation whether or not it's felt now.

In the end, it doesn't totally matter. If we change it, users will have "less" money in terms of total dollars, but they won't have "less" money in terms of the value of that money. If we don't change anything, users will have "more" money in terms of total dollars, but not "more" money in terms of value because prices will go up in reaction to the increase in cash flows anyway. Regardless of what we do, the market will stabilize itself.

I think this is a good discussion to have, though, because I think it proves that we're in an environment where everyone wants to see everyone else succeed.

You may be right about inflation, Sonoma. Only time will tell.

I think you have to also look at the currency sink as much as it's creation. You have riding schools now, which has been pointed out can earn someone with a large herd $10k - $20k a day. But with the ability to create as many foundation horses as we want, it's very easy to dump that much and more in the EC while trying for projects. That's currency that just disappears from the economy. As does the % of sales that is taken from selling things on the market. Add in the cost of caring for those horses, and the fact that some of the games don't pay out the way they used to, the fact that the item payout for riding schools has already been reduced, and I think it helps bring balance.

As for the inflation in EVC price, that's more I think a product of market visibility and ease of access. Before, all sales had to be advertised over the forums, people had to post and wait around for responses and sellers to come online after an order was placed, and prices were easy to see and shop around. Now, people can just throw them up into the credit sales forum and leave them there with no additional work to sell, and buyers can get credits instantly when they want them by just clicking "buy" at the price they're willing to pay. Sellers can easily see exactly what their competition is charging and can undercut by just enough to get sales without really losing profit, and buyers can choose the best price or best volume to fit what they need at that moment. Add that to the fact that many items/services went up in EVC price, and you're looking at an instant increase in the demand for EVC to keep players functioning at the level they were before, but no matching increase in people's means to acquire EVC (it still costs the same amount of USD as it did before, and you can't find them in leisure riding anymore). This led to people grabbing the lowest cost EVC while they could, which meant only higher priced ones were available on the credit sales page. This meant that sellers could price their own EVC higher, while still undercutting their competition only a little, which raised the overall cost of EVC in the market. We're actually seeing a pretty strong matching of EVC doubling in EVD cost while the item/service costs doubled in EVC value.

** note, when I say doubling in cost, I'm referring mostly to the cost of auto-care and auto-showing which I know doubled in EVC cost, I'm not honestly sure about the cost of everything else, as those were the only thing I've bought outside of Deluxe, which hasn't changed. Feel free to correct me if I'm drastically wrong about the cost changes**

Sonoma, I feel like I am missing something. If I am, i apologize.

Deluxe members have the option to also send their horses to another Deluxe member's riding school in order to earn money. Consequentially, they have the ability to recoup that cost with ease, especially those with larger herds -- as a Deluxe member I pull in $10-40k a day in riding schools depending on who is showing. Recouping the investment can easily take less than 2 months. It's...pretty clear... that Deluxe members have the option of also benefiting from Riding Schools just as much as non-Deluxe members. They simply have to, ha, "stimulate the economy" by using a different member's Riding School rather than their own.

Regardless ,it still seems the only aspect of the game that has some inflation is the EVC price, and supply/demand does a good job explaining that. I guess I simply don't see the logic behind pointing to the riding school earnings for inflation when the more powerful force at hand is supply/demand.

I noticed that the cost of shows went down during Christmas break when everyone was out of school. I don't enter my horses in expensive shows. Plus ridding schools help my horses gain stats when they are to low to win and I would be just wasting my money if I entered into any.

Yes, riding schools generate money and items out of nowhere. However, as Timbergray touched on, there are also many ways that money disappears into nowhere. Any time you buy from the General Store, repair your tack, create a horse or buy one from the Rescue Center, money disappears from the game.

The idea is to have a balance between the two, while also maintaining flow of cash between players. (Shows, buying/selling horses and items, training horses, etc.)

I do think Equiverse is pretty balanced. It is easy to stay afloat financially for those who aren't into hardcore strategy, and it is also possible to make money hand over fist if you are willing and able to invest the time and play your cards well. That way, both casual players and competitive players can enjoy the game. There are cheap horses and easy money available, but the greatest rewards come from the greatest and most strategic effort.