[ADDED] *Make Cubes More Rare

Part of the horse market issue is people struggling to find horses with foundation level non-spec stats as many players are using cubes/mints to increase their horse stats quickly. By limiting the amount of cubes available on the game and creating a limited supply players would then have to evaluate what the best use for them would be instead of assigning them to all their horses because there's an abundance of free treats. 

By limiting the amount of cubes(peppermints are pretty rare and thus excluded), there would still be enough for players to cube their foals and be able to take advantage of the discipline changing method should they wish. The decrease in cubes obtained would just mean that it would be harder herds of horses to be fed cubes their whole life. 

I understand that some players wish to play the game through using free treats in order to save some money, or their goal is to create horses with as high as stats as possible through treating. However, I think this is one of the larger aspects that is currently hurting the horse market. 

I'm not sure if this was suggested before or not, I've heard players mention it but failed to find a suggestion board for it. 
Thoughts are welcome!

Last edited on 2018-08-11 at 14:05:15 by River

I support this. I agree that improper treating is an issue. A huge issue, in my experience. The fact that hay cubes/sugar cubes have such little value and can be so detrimental to the value of a horse when not used properly is exceptionally frustrating for so many players and potential buyers.

I wish sugar cubes would be removed from the game and that hay cubes be made MUCH harder to get.

I would also support cubes being completely removed and peppermints being made as accessible as they were in old EV, but I think people may have more of an issue with that. Also, I'm not sure Abbey would appreciate having to remove two items she already put on the game, hence the suggestion above

I agree with Eliza and Evermore. Either sugar cubes or hay cubes should be removed and the other should be made more rare. I feel that the cubes are a bit repetitive and further hurt the horse economy. From riding school just in these past two weeks, I’ve gotten over 1000 uses of sugar cubes and the only use I have for them are trading them in.

Last edited on 2018-08-11 at 08:16:53 by cazoo

No support. This path will force players to limit their gameplay choices. If they want to use haycubes/sugarcubes, that's their choice. Personally, I use hay cubes and convert my horses because they earns me more stats than showing.

There's other way to fix this issue without taking away players' choices and that doesn't targeting the minorities.

Last edited on 2018-08-11 at 13:57:03 by Missionis Decerpendo

@Eliza, oh I agree. I say I would like sugar cubes removed but I don't expect them to be. I don't really get why sugar cubes were added-they are just like hay cubes but don't give out as much stats. But again, I don't actually expect them to be removed. I am all for making them harder to get though!   :)

@Missionis Decerpendo, it does not force players to play ANY differently....? This idea would just have players use the OTHER FREE treats they get from riding lessons. Or help them decide which treats they want to buy from other players. (And the suggestion isn't to remove cubes completely, so if you wanted to still cube, go for it.)

Last edited on 2018-08-11 at 08:37:10 by ᏋᏉᏋᏒᎷᎧᏒᏋ

The suggestion wouldn't take away their choice to use sugar or hay cubes, if a player still wants to cube their horses the cubes would still be available. Not everyone uses them, many people would be happy to sell off their cubes for a quick buck, as many people already do at the general store with the trade in feature. 

By limiting the supply, it's doesn't take away the option of cubing but simply makes players put more thought into what they're doing, and possibly invest in their breeding programs a little more. 

On old EV this is how it was with peppermints, there was still plenty enough for players to use should they want to use them.  If I ever ran out all I would have to do is ask if people had some they'd like to sell, I always got a response because everyone had them but not everyone used them

Because of this, I don't see it as infringing upon gameplay choices as its effect is easily worked around should people require it

Last edited on 2018-08-11 at 08:30:40 by ξιίzα Ð

Maybe instead of getting cubes from riding lessons, they could be found on trail rides occasionally? But be a bit more common than finding peppermints? They could also be handed out from the Wishing Fountain if you wish to help horses? Or maybe be occasional finds at the junk yard?
        Just some thoughts. :)

@evermore That is another possibility. 

I'd also like to note that whatever lack of cubes taken out of riding schools could most likely be preplaced with the other free treat options, so people who use schooling to recieve free treats wouldn't lose that aspect of the game. Just in case there was a question on that. 

@MC/Andro
Players wouldn't be forced to buy anything, if they want more cubes for free all they have to do is farm them through our 3 allowed accounts. If they wanted more after that, then buying would be an option. Treat sales also aren't like credit sales. Everyone is able to see how much they're sold for at the general store, if a player believes another player is selling them for too high they can very easily point it out and purchase though a cheaper seller.

The riding school on average earns less stats than showing, however in certain instances it can actually earn more than showing a horse, which is why people frequently use it when a horse is at the low end of their grade. In the past I had plenty of horses flop at showing simply because they got stuck at the beginning of the next grade before I figured out what was going on (those lovely times when we were all a newb, fond memories, man).

Also a large problem with the market is the excess of non-showable horses due to treating with cubes, making up for a lack of stats from showing by cubing and then breeding horses with stats all over the place is contributing toward the problem, and evidently a lot of players don't realize the effect.

Sims games are oftentimes based on strategy, by not considering your choices and being strategic more likely than not you're not going to have much success in a sim game. So I consider areas where you're reminded of that to be a learning experience and a plus (much like the budgeting aspect of this game)

Also I'm well aware this version isn't old ev, and that the market used to be better. but old ev didn't have this problem, partly because there wasn't such a huge number of treats destroying any chances of showing.

Assuming you are indeed andromeda, having seen your posts on the forums and from what I've read there's no way to make you happy. I will not be responding to you from this point on as in the past you like to nitpick over details that aren't always relevant to the game, making your posts long and difficult to read or make sense of. I'm sorry you don't appreciate the game anymore, I hope you find something else that makes you happy.

Last edited on 2018-08-11 at 14:49:02 by ξιίzα Ð

So, just for the sake of educating me. Why does it matter how many stats your horse has when you don't show your horses......???? Can anyone explain that to me?

I agree with you, Missionis Decerpendo, the current show system is rather poor. I have not been impressed with the changes to it and am still unsurprised that it is still buggy months after "being improved." I too no longer show horses because of it. But I still don't get how simply making cubes a bit harder to come by is going to be an "end all" for players that use those treats...?

Also, showing used to be the better way to gain stats. But I am not certain that with the new tweaks added to the showing system that that still holds true.

<sup>To oneself, it doesn't really matter the stats you have if you're not showing or breeding within your own group. It does however limit your market extremely if you wanted to sell said horses, part of your strategy then is to have desirable horses as well as what you are aiming for. There's no real incentive to show or have horses other players want/need when you can be in your own little bubble. 

I feel there's too much reliance on shows and schools as a main source of income, of course you're struggling to earn the money if you're only relying on that. Yes, it should be a large source of income (and perhaps a different discussion on trying to improve output to come later), but so should breeding and selling horses (which is unfortunately terrible but also I stand by my uncommon goal argument in previous posts). Encouraging sales and breeding as other forms of income would be beneficiary, and reducing cubes, and the amount of cubed horses (and readily available foundations) on the game would open up player markets greatly . 

I've had the longstanding opinion that cubes have been the worst addition to the game, not because the extra stats, but because of their abundance. Of course, when you want to take something like that away, of course people are going to complain that their free stats are going away, but they're actually not. We have so many cubes that you most likely won't see a difference for a long time even if they were made rare, purely because of the amount people have hoarded since they were introduced, and the amount of people that riding school horses. And repurposing them to be basically more common than peppermints but still rare would still stimulate player economy in cube trades for people who want to play that way. As someone who uses both cubes + conversion and correct treats from the beginning, there's really not that much difference in stats, handy for a foundation boost but not really when it comes to longer pedigrees. Especially since raising stats too quickly is actually detrimental the less horses you have to compete with, the longer the generation in most cases). 

In terms of showing, it was bugged for a long long time, and I honestly do not think the amount of people showing has changed since the fixes, in fact I think we have even less people showing now, hence the seemingly lack of improvement with the system. I showed 3 days the entire week with about 40 horses and still made it to the weekly points board, so that pretty much suggests to me that only handful of players actually show. Which I also understand, and part of why I think the riding school was also not the best decision in terms of it's output, but great in terms of a showing replacement. Why bother paying that entry fee for a chance my horse might gain stats or bring money back when the riding school gives me money, stats and free treats 100% of the time? If I didn't hate collecting riding school horses or enjoying seeing my horses rake in points and earning (even if I'm just breaking even most of the time) then I would probably school myself. 

That being said, I fully support reducing the amount of cubes readily available, not removing them entirely. If you want any kind of improvement to the game, there are going to have to be changes that people won't like, and while Abbey tries her best to please the majority, I also think the majority simple do not want to change and would prefer to constantly complain about a broken game and stagnating economy. There has to be some guidance on raising horses than a free for all game, without an incentive or common goal there's no strategy to what's intended to be a competitive horse game- which says to me there should absolutely be a showing focus and drive to showable horses, and not horses that are all over the place. 

Besides, there's no reason not to see how things will pan out with changes, if it doesn't work then things can be reverted or done differently. There's absolutely no guarantee that anything will be permanent in the game, as Abbey has the right to change things as she see's fit, so it's really not unreasonable to suggest changes like this.</sup> 

Sorry for long post but Eliza D mentioned that my thoughts aren't relevant to this (which is an irony since people got mad at me for stating that some stuff aren't relevant to certain topics) so I am trying to explain things better to prevent more misunderstanding.

I didn't support this because this suggestion promote rarity over uses.

The reason why we usually have more haycubes than normal treats are their number of uses. Riding school gives out 10 uses of hay cube while normal treats are single use. I got a lot more of normal treats in riding school but their uses are ten time lower than one hay cube. I remember several times when I went through at least 10 horses and didn't receive any haycubes or sugarcubes. 

For example:
Horse #1 - red, green, carrot, red, yellow
Horse #2 - turnip, carrot, hay cube, red, green, carrot
Both horses bring me 12 treats in total and only one is haycube. However, that single hay cube contains 10 uses which brings us: 3 uses of reds, 2 greens, 3 carrots, 1 yellow, 1 turnip, and 10 hay cubes.

It is not the rarity that is the problem. It is the number of uses. I think riding school should still spits out same amount of hay cubes/sugar cubes BUT decrease the uses.
Peppermint is basically non-exist because Abbey choose to code in rarity instead of decreasing the uses which make it nearly impossible to get a peppermint. If we make haycubes/sugarcubes rarer, they probably will be basically non-exist like peppermint. Then all of their price will be ridiculously high (I actually saw a player selling a 20 uses peppermint for over 200k) so majority of players (not those filthy rich players) could afford that. Therefore, those players will be forced to switch to normal treats.

Also, this "solution" will not fix the game. It probably will take at least two year before the change to show. Personally, I have over 30k haycubes in my account (due to high uses). That hoard will last me for over two years. Plus, we can't forget the current horses with higher non-spec stats from pre-code. It will take forever to breed down those undesirable stats. I just don't see the point in this suggestion. Why should Abbey waste her time coding for a minor change (with additional bugs) that won't fix the game for at least 2 years when she can code something more major that will change the gameplay within a year?
But then again, that's just my thoughts and the majority will never support the major change. See EDIT below for clarifying :)
If the majority honestly think that this suggestion will actually solve the problem, then go for it. I honestly don't think this suggestion will solve the problem for at least 2 years which means we will have two more years of complaining. That's why I decided to voice my thoughts. In RL, a lot of people told me that I have more progressive thoughts that they didn't think of. That'a why I shared this because I am aware of the possibility that other players didn't think far ahead like I did due to my tendency of overthinking and planning farther ahead. lol. people told me that it is a gift. such a pain in a** "gift" tho... lost several friends because of that. they would disagree with me the moment I suggest it but agree to it 5 years later and acts like it was their original thoughts when I am the one who plants the thoughts in them. I have digressed from the original point again lol.

I think limiting them would be a good thing. There are waayyy to many of these things floating in existence. A good market is when items like these are gobbled up at a healthy rate. So each time a new one is collected there should be one used up. I bought large bundles of these in one go and I won't need to collect them myself for awhile. I feel the rate of being created vs used is unbalanced. I think making them rarer will help with this problem. It might be awhile before the true results show in game play but when that starts to show we can always adjust their rarity again if it becomes a problem.

Later down the line, there will be a "demand" for them and I think that is the level where their rarity should be. Most should be using the treats we have in-store like carrots/turnips etc. A hay cube or a peppermint should be more an "occasional" thing. With the current system you can just buy/collect enough haycubes to completely replace the in-store treats completely. I find it unbalanced in that aspect. 

Of course there are going to be players who don't use haycubes and ones who will. They will sell to the ones that want them and the other can make a profit. I think thats a healthy way of player market exchange. It's how I play other games lol. I find a item in demand and farm it and then allow others to purchase it. In the end I always buy up "Creatures" I saved up for instead of "breeding" them. It's just another way one can reach their goals. So In this case you could buy a nice stated horse from the players you sold cudes too down the line. Just my thoughts ~

<sup>^ In regards to the normal vs cubes, I have reached 1000 stat foundations consistently with both methods, maybe it's a little easier with cubes but it's not necessarily overpowering in terms of stats. However, I only use it on foundations so maybe there's some averaging out going on, and I only ever use it on horses I plan on converting to other stats. 

Reducing the amount of haycubes acquired isn't punishing players. As you said they have 10 uses per treat, it actually make sense for them to be rarer than a single treat for their multiple uses, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they have to be as rare a peppermints (albeit perhaps so because they have so many uses). Decreasing uses would be probably be helpful and easier than changing the drop rate on cubes, and essentially serves the same function. 

Haycubes and conversion is a pretty common use in stat and show breeders, but the problem is lifetime cubed horses and subsequently horses bred from cubed horses. As the system is so punishing in terms of showing and it being so easy to mess a horse up in a couple weeks, it makes it difficult for the horse to be useful to anyone, especially with the amount you need to invest in a horse to make it suitable for what you want to do with it. Credits are crazy expensive that people hate to double convert a horse, and it takes several generations to breed out higher ns stats. Cubes contribute to that problem. Yes, higher stats and cross-breeding existed on the old ev, but it also wasn't an issue on that version, because only speciality stats counted in shows (as far as I remember) so treats giving random stats did not have as much of an impact on showing as they do in this version. 

It's not as if the game is broken enough to be completely unplayable, it can be a little difficult to make profit, I have more profit showing smaller amounts of horses than all of them some days, or I make less, it's unpredictable. Unfortunately due to the oversaturation of unwanted horses in the market, and the lack of demand for anything means any changes made won't have an immediate effect, so their is the risk of disillusionment with change. That's not to say changes shouldn't be made, just nothing will be an instant fix.</sup>