[ADDED] *Euthanasia Option

Not sure if this has been suggested or not, I looked but didn't see anything.

I think it would be nice if under the vet clinic if we had an option to euthanize a horse. That way you could cull out foals that didn't work out or horses that you don't want but don't want to sell. Not sure if this will get a lot of support and I suppose if we can spay mares than it wouldn't be necessary but it's 3am here and it seems like a good idea at the moment.

Last edited on 2017-08-10 at 11:11:39 by River

There used to be a delete button before the recode (With a limit of five deleted horses a week)

I do miss this option as a breeder, I would like to see if back for the reasons that you listed.

This has been suggested before, although it was called deleting horses. No support, for the same reasons as mentioned on the previous topic. I'd rather see us get the ability to spay mares, then any unwanted horses can just be desexed then dumped in the RC, regardless of gender.

Support. Would like the option to "delete" horses again and this is a creative way to approach that. Thanks suggesting it.

Support. Because I feel a horse owner should have all options in regard to what they want to do with their horses.

I’ve said it before: I don’t understand why players are against deleting horses with a simple click. We are getting rid of unwanted horses either way, doing it by starving to death or gelding to dump in the RC makes no difference to a delete button.

Support. As Danzy said, one thing I noticed upon coming back was the lack of the delete button that used to exist. A delete or spay would be nice. 

It's not correct to say a delete button is the same as starving a horse or gelding it and leaving it in the RC.

A delete/euthanise button is quick and requires minimal effort and no cost (which has both pros and cons), while starving horses requires time and resources (barn space) to kill them, and gelding then leaving in the RC is both quick and convenient, and gives other players the opportunity to pick up a good riding centre or show horse.

The benefit of the existing system is that if you want to kill a horse you have to put effort in to do it, and it's therefore less likely to be abused by the deletion squads that used to exist when we had the deletion button before. They would go around buying up or rescuing vast numbers of horses that met their criteria for 'inferior' just so they could delete them. The quick and convenient nature of the delete button meant it was easy for them to do this, and do so on a massive scale. This resulted in a lot of good quality horses being removed from the game, making things needlessly difficult for those who couldn't afford top horses, or those who bred for things other than stats, and players would get upset when the horse they'd worked hard on and sold to what they thought was a good home just ended up deleted immediately.

Sure, someone could still buy up a ton of horses just to starve them, but the time, resources and barn space required to do this means fewer people would be willing to expend the effort without a good reason, so we're not likely to see the deletion squads return under the existing system.

A delete button will also end up replacing gelding for a lot of people, solely because it's more convenient, meaning there will be fewer riding school or show horses made available, which will disproportionately impact newer players who use these horses as an extra income stream and couldn't otherwise afford such high quality horses.

Perhaps one way to resolve these issues would be if euthanasia had a fee attached to it that was considerably more than gelding ($200). Perhaps $5000? High enough to make the mass slaughter of the deletion squads difficult, and also make gelding and dropping in the RC still be a much more attractive option if someone wanted to get rid of a horse without risking it getting bred. Being able to spay mares would also be essential for this solution to work. No point in having desexing only available for one gender. Restricting deletion to horses you'd owned for a minimum amount of time, e.g. 2 weeks, would also prevent players from going on buy-to-kill crusades.

I still feel this is a needlessly complex and difficult solution that doesn't fully resolve all problems. I think we should first just allow mares to be spayed, so that there is a cheap and convenient way to get rid of horses, regardless of gender, that will also protect pedigrees, then see if there is still any demand for deletion once that's been in place for a while.

My main issue with gelding/spaying, is that it’s a worthless feature in a breeding sim. They can be used for showing, fair enough, but how many do show them? My impression is not very many.
I will never spend time on a horse that will never contribute to my breeding program. Money is not particularly hard to come by now days, thanks to the riding school. It’s not like new players are dependent on high performing show horses to get by.

I’ve seen the mass deleting mentioned before, and really there’s nothing preventing players from doing the same thing with spaying/gelding. If someone started it again, like the mass deleting was started by a few players, there’s nothing preventing them from buying horses, gelding/spaying them, and putting them back in the RC. It’s cheap to pick them up from the RC, it’s cheap to geld and it’s free to dump in the RC. Once a horse is infertile, it’s worthless and could just as well have been deleted (except for those few bothering to show them).
Another point is that we are no longer limited to 5 (or was it 10?) EC horses a week, like we were back then when this was going on. The argument of there being a lack of cheap horses for newbies and projects with the ability to delete, isn’t there anymore.

If there’s truly a demand for spaying, then by all means add it. But if it’s just going to be used to get rid of unwanted horses anyway, what’s the point? If a way to delete/euthanasia was added, we could set two requirements to prevent players from deleting willy-nilly; 1. You’d have to own the horse for a set amount of days, say 7, before you could delete it. OR 2. Be the breeder. Of course we could also make it somewhat expensive.

From what I understood so far, the main argument for spaying mares/deleting horses is to keep the lines clean and maintain their value- and that's something I fully support.

I have heard about the deleting squads but shouldn't that be "easy" to avoid if the deleting option is limited to  a matching Breeder/Owner id? Or am I missing something?

From what I remember there was a 5 EC horse create limit per week and a 5 horse delete limit per week. Even with all the horses 'delete squads' there were always plenty of horses in the RC, great and terrible in stats and confo. 

I think there will always be ways to abuse every option in the game, no matter which way you look at it, with or without the delete button. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some of the 'delete squad' still around that have accounts open just to dump horses in to kill them off several at a time while running their main account.

I miss the delete button for my own OCD reasons and emotional quirks. I can't starve something willingly (real or pixels. I can't) and I HATE putting horses into the RC. I used the delete button on my own horses, or horses that I failed at training up enough form the RC to standards that other breeders wanted. (The majority of my income back in the day was training rescue horses up for various breeders so they could bring clean lines into their herds while maintaining a top quality clyde herd that carried the uncommon grey and roan genes) 

I do agree on having limits on the delete button like a time limit on owning the horse (7 days) or having bred the horse your self, as well as a 5 horses deleted per week. 

There is a difference between responsible deleting and irresponsible/ spite deleting. 

I've found players that do spite starving of horses. I've had a few foals bought just so that the player could starve them to death and get rid of them. Personally I think it would have been less of a slap in the face if there had of been a delete button and the foal killed faster. (But that is just me) 

I can understand why people don't want the delete button any more... and I can see why people do want it back. 

There will always be people that abuse the system, and people that irk other people... but I think not having the delete button takes away a breeders right to fully control their lines while they are trying to establish them. Even if a breeders keeps their lines closed to everyone else any way, EVENTUALLY they will need fresh blood from OUTSIDE of their own herd. 

Added! ♥