An Important Message About the Equiverse Economy

i have always sold my tags for 50k/1 evc and my sigs for 100k/2 evc.
i do auctions sometimes and mainly for custom large art c:

I don't like how people say that they accept evc up to 50%. I also don't like how people who have millions to spend buy up everything. Not to throw anyone under the bus but I think its unfair. Like for auctions, most of the time ill put out lots of evd for art, but there are some arts who will make AB amounts like 5 million or 10 million. I understand you put tons of time into a piece but you have to give people a chance.

50k is a great price for a tag recolour! I'm always going to be keeping mine between 25k-50k!

I used to get loads of slots filled on old equiverse! Now I'm lucky if I fill 6 slots :c I love making art, I'm even giving out free slots for any art requests and all sorts of other things for just 50k. Just my art getting recognition makes me feel good, but at the same time I'd like to afford other people's art! :c damn economy

Question:: What about collaborations? Do you raise the price for those? Yes, 50k is a wonderful price for a tag. I wholly agree with that. But what if it's a collaboration? Or at the very least, one person does all the art and the other does the recolors? Do you raise the price or just split the 50k?

How would that work?

The reason I sell for higher than 50k is because I believe my art is of higher quality/effort put into it than other art I've seen(not trying to be like "im an elitist and my art is so much better than everyone else's, blah blah blah".. but I'm just saying I believe I am more experienced than some). It's not because I want to spike the economy. I used to sell tags for 50k or lower back then because I wasn't as experienced of an artist back then. I believe I now put higher effort into my art therefore, I don't see a problem in me asking more. If people want to pay that much, then they will :P My prices shouldn't be guidelines for someone else's art, I'm not sure if anyone has used them as so xP I do still accept EVC, in usually any quantity (mostly mixed, but I don't do that dumb 50/50 mix cap thing. Though I don't think people realize in my sales that they can bid almost any quantity of EVC to EVD). Of course I haven't sold art here in quite awhile though, but that's just my two cents. If people don't buy my art here, I'm not that butthurt about it cos I sell through dA as well anyway. (again, not implying things like people should just sell through dA. Just saying, this is what I do)

I haven't sold any art here in a while, other than some sketches a few weeks ago. I also haven't bought any art either, since I haven't had any use for it.

But when I do, my tags/sigs are normally at regular price unless their either limited, or have something special about them, like movement or whatnot. Art that doesn't fall in this range is more often priced at the same price I sell it elsewhere, like dA. I haven't done large art in a long while, but it takes work, a lot of work. Shading makes it even more work. I don't sell it here often anymore because it's hard to price it where I feel I'm getting paid enough for my time.

Recolors and such on a baseparate tag aren't a terrible amount of extra work, considering even if I only sell 5 I can make 250k without having to sketch/base/shade/color 5 different images.

I'm still working on my terribly backlogged commissions, now that my tablet is working with the desktop, after my laptop decided to fry itself, so I'm not doing art for the boards here, until I can finally catch up with how behind I've gotten.

I havent touched my tablet since we opened the recode to EV live lol...

But base prices for the win, unless its some grand character i make that I haven't seen anyone else come up with yet or try to do, then yeah, it might be a tad more expensive (on the old EV). We've got to consider with the way everything else is priced, that things have to change :)

I agree a lot with what maple said.

And I think the decline in EVC use has to do with the new EVC player market. EVC is no longer worth a firm 50k, so it's not worth it for artists to take EVC if they're charging 50k EVD. I still accept and value EVC as 50k, but I understand why artists don't use them anymore.

I think using 50k as a base price is a great idea... but I also don't think it's fair to artists to push them to always price their work at 50k. Certain artists are more in demand, whether it be the style or detail in their work, or the "brand" they've created, and I feel it's unfair to make them feel guilty for charging more than 50k.

If your work doesn't sell at 75k, then drop to 50k. Drop until there's a demand for your work. Work with the market!

If you sell for 50k but sell out near instantly or get 15 requests on the first day, raise your price. Artists deserve to be able to work smart as opposed to hard. If they're able to take fewer commissions at a higher price, so be it, and it may help prevent them burning out. It may help them have more art sales in the future.

I write all of this as someone who isn't a /great/ artist, but an okay one, and an okay one who was able to sell designs ranging from 25-100k fairly rapidly. Some didn't sell; this doesn't mean the art market is dying, it means the market isn't after what I was offering. I didn't take it personally. I dropped prices until nearly all of them got homes.

That said, I don't want the art community here to become a handful of super talented professional artists selling their work consistently for 100k+. I wouldn't be able to participate then, as an artist or a buyer. I think we just need to realize that there's nothing wrong with selling at 50k, or even 25k.

There are some excellent points being brought up in this thread.

Regarding pricing, I don't think we should be telling people you must be selling your work for such-and-such a price, but I think it would be useful to have some sort of pricing guide (with examples of different quality and prices) so that people aren't unintentionally over/under-pricing their work, or getting ripped off when buying. Supply and demand will naturally mean some pieces will be worth more or less than what would be considered standard for that quality, and that's ok. Some artists may also feel that the amount of effort they put into a piece justifies a higher price, even if it means fewer people will be interested, and that's ok too. I do agree with most people here that 50k base price for a tag of reasonable quality is fair.

I also agree with the points people are making about inappropriate artist behaviour, and have seen plenty of it myself. Throwing a massive tantrum and refusing to refund things just because someone misread the rules on a thread is unfair and a ridiculous over-reaction. I've seen this happen between players and will not buy from artists who do things like this. Taking forever to complete work is also completely unacceptable. I get that life happens sometimes, and if it does the appropriate response is to let people know what's going on, and allow them an option of a refund. Getting grumpy when buyers start asking what's going on, despite it having been months, is unacceptable.

I think some sort of etiquette guide for both buyers and sellers would be very beneficial. It should cover topics like:
- Completing orders in a timely manner - what's reasonable and what's not. (And not running sales if it's likely you'll be too busy to do the work.)
- Having limited slots to prevent getting overloaded with too much work (you can always open more later).
- Providing WIPs and regular updates for larger works.
- Keeping buyers informed if something comes up that means things will take longer.
- Refund policies (when to offer refunds, whether full/partial is fair).
- Appropriate rules on sale/auctions threads, and rules on sold artwork.
- How to handle any issues that crop up in an appropriate and polite manner.

Last edited on 2016-06-21 at 21:55:46 by UlyssesBlue (spare)

By no means did I mean everyone should sell their artwork for 50,000 EVD -- they can sell things for however much they want.

But for the sake of saving the art community, I think it's important to consider that there is a point where people will stop buying art because of the price.

And naturally, the prices will fluctuate - and better artists do expect to get more, and do deserve more. I'm just trying to make the point that the art community is suffering because of the increase in cost for tags and art, but for nothing else.

Newer artists that also expect the same amount that better, more experience artists get in their sales are only looking for a failure of a sale, in my opinion.
I know this might cause some backlash, but when some artists (that quite frankly aren't that good) sell their simple, basic designs expecting to get a large profit, moreso than better artists, they're lying to themselves. And by no means am I calling anyone out on anything, because this has been happening for years, and many players have come and gone - but if your art doesn't sell, there has to be a reason for that.

And it might be partly due to the weird EV economy changes, but it might also be due to the fact that some artists still need practice if they're expecting to get a large amount of money from their art when the art market is already suffering.

Artists can sell their things for however much they want; but it's becoming more and more likely that their art won't sell; especially considering the demand for the more popular artists.

I'm glad this forum post has gathered this much discussion; I'm glad to see many of you agreeing, and I'm glad to see varying points of view. I respect all of these ideas - better artists deserve more, yes, but the EV economy is suffering because everyone (the newer/less experienced) is expecting to be able to sell things for the same price.

Thank you for your input!

Don't buy art buy ponies!
I actually think that's even more of a contributing factor. There's just more to do now! Why on earth would I spent 100k+ on a tag that's not unique to or perfect for my character when I could do so much more with it to earn more money or better my EV horses.
100k is 10 new arenas or 20 new spaces in those arenas which both make you more money. 100k is more divisions and more horse space. 100k is a new horse! 100k is 2500 treats! 100k in the bank is $500 a day(it adds up man, I'm tellin you it does).

100k to me is pocket change since I make 50k a day on interest and probably more than 50k after all my dailies and shows, I don't actually keep track. but I rarely spend on art anymore except on artists I like that I see with open sales or sales I get notified about by friends. I totally have preferences, and don't frivolously spend like I used to in the old EV. Also I like trades. I hate spending money actually, I'd much rather trade my way to art, or have it freely given, but I'm just as content to sit back and watch people create cool stuff and tell them how awesome it is. Art for Art is a great way to do things I think, make something you want, share it with others if you want to, not to make a huge profit to be nothing but rich. Do it cause you love it.

Now that we've gotten all the soppy Sabs over with. EV is a SIM game, if you want to profit off your art there's GREAT places out there to do that. It's not here. If you want to play with awesome pixel ponies while also sharing and improving your art? This is totally your place! Please stick around and do your thing.
There is a market for art here, there always will be as long as we have forum avatars and signatures and layouts, and horse images for those over level 30. But everyone's got to know the market. Since I've been sitting on this post for so long. I'm going to now quote lovely arden, thanks for this great advice "Work with the market!" doesn't sell? lower prices! still doesn't sell? try something else! Ask for opinions and critique! Buy another pony! ;] ;]

A massive point of the recode was to actually turn EV into a game and not an "Art sim".

So, to be honest, I'm actually pretty happy that the art market is struggling. Maybe more people will actually play the game instead of only being on it to sell/buy art.

Well, being the fact that Abbey is allowing us to still have graphics around the site (tags, layouts, horse images at lvl 30) art may be struggling, but most likely it will always be here because of those reasons.

I completely disagree with Sara. People put lots of time and effort into their art, and they can put whatever price tag they want on it. If I spend hours upon hours on a design then no, not "everyone" will get a chance at it, only those who are willing to pay the price I feel it is worth. And people who have millions to spend earned their money fairly and good for them! They can spend however much money they want on art if that's how they want play the game. I feel like what she said doesn't contribute to the points being made in this post and instead is just complaining that people buy and sell art for more money than she is willing to spend on art. And I'm not being an elitist, I'm not exactly game wealthy either but I understand those who are.

I, however, do agree with many of the points being made on prices and the art community just dying. Honestly the forums in general seem more dead than they were before the recode and I don't know exactly why. When it first came out earlier this year I just attributed it to the fact that most of the activity dies a bit during the school year because this is a game with a large amount of school aged kids on it, but we're almost in the middle of summer break and it's still so empty here despite people being online. I am guilty myself of not exactly contributing to the art community for at least the past month and not buying or selling as much as I used to. I will definitely try my best to start being a more active member of the art community and maybe, if more do the same, we can have what we've had in previous years.

I love this Nari, very well said indeed!

I flat out refuse to buy art from some artists now because;
A.) They still owe me art (the longest piece so far has been 2 years; contacted them and it seems they've already forgotten...again)
B.) This has only happened once, but the person has returned, I bought a signature, had 3 horses and a dog, I won and paid before completion, and they took out the dog. I contacted them and politely asked for the dog or some sort of refund since they only gave me half of something I paid for and they just ignored me...
C.) No diversity in designs, or it was overpriced for what they're selling