Crossbreeds

Ok, well good news on the Azteca front. I've managed to get the details from the Mexican registry translated, and the results are that an Andalusian x Quarter Horse counts as both an Azteca and an American Azteca. Although the first type allows Criollo blood, it isn't a requirement, so this type is compatible with EV. An Andalusian x Paint crossbreed can be registered as an American Azteca, but not a traditional Azteca. For the sake of accuracy I'll record both types of Azteca in my list, and leave it with Abbey as to how she wishes to handle adapting this for EV, if it gets added.

Also, Hispano-Arabe horses added (Andalusian x Arabian).

Arabo-Friesian horses added to the 'pure-ish' category for now. Not quite sure what to do with this breed. It only works here if we take a looser definition of the breed than what the official registry does. They require a relative high percentage of Friesian blood, and a relatively low amount of Arabian blood. They're a bit like the Pintabian in that respect, hence their placement in the 'pure-ish' category for now. A 50:50 Friesian x Arabian could just scrape through with a type of appendix registration, meaning its offspring could be Arabo-Friesian if it's bred to a Friesian. The usual percentage of Friesian blood is high enough that the breed looks pretty much identical to a Friesian.

Turbo Friesian horses added (Arabian x Friesian). These seem to be just a normal type of crossbreed, so I've removed the Arabo-Friesian, which seem to be too restrictive in their breed requirements to work well in EV's breeding system.

Friesian Sport Horses added. These seem to be Friesians crossed with either Thoroughbreds or any type of warmblood, i.e. Trakehners and Dutch Warmbloods. If I'm missing any other crosses that count as this breed, let me know. Baroque Pintos are also mentioned as these appear to be any Friesian x warmblood that has a pinto pattern.

Kisber Felvers not added, as they appear to be a pure breed, not a crossbreed.

@PoniesStars This list is limited to crossbreeds that are recognised in real life, i.e. have their own registries, breed standards, etc. Miniature Gypsy Vanners would be adorable, but they're not a real breed.

Last edited on 2017-02-03 at 00:03:40 by UlyssesBlue (spare)

You would likely have to bring the POA in as a new breed and then allow the outcrossing as well as POA to POA breeding.
They are unlike the Appaloosa though as they do not allow non-characteristic and oversized animals to show as POA's (they are allowed to be used as breeding stock). They also do not allow any pinto breeding and discourage breeding to grey horsrs. They are more strict than ApHC in allowance of white on face and legs not related to the Lp gene.

In the early days quite a bit of shetland blood was used but then they changed the height limits and now smaller sized horses (Appaloosa and AQHA mostly) are the most common outcrosses. I'm not sure Shetlands are still considered as an outcross since the size was changed.

Yes, Kisber Felvers are a pure breed, but I would argue that they could count in the "pure-ish" crossbreds category.

"Through a carefully controlled breeding program, a distinct horse type evolved. The Kisber Felver was bred by crossing Thoroughbreds with Furiosos, Trakehners, Arabians, Anglo-Arabians, and Selle Francais, while maintaining the a high ratio of Thoroughbred blood. The Kisber Felver is a relatively young breed, developed over the past hundred years..."

@Sonoma - so it would require a Trake/Arabian/Anglo-Arab/Selle Francais crossbred with a Thoroughbred to create a Kisber Felver?

That's not how I interpret it, no. I read it as all of those types of blood contributed to the development--in the same kind of way that Friesian Sport Horses can be created using DWB x Friesian, Trake x Friesian, Thoroughbred x Friesian, etc.

Maybe it's too grey. And that's fine if so. I just think that because it's a young breed and has those contributors, perhaps it could be formed the same way as some of the other crosses.

In the other games I've played in the past, it has been considered a cross of TB x Trake or TB x Akhal-Teke.

The way I see it, if a breed was originally developed from crossbreeds (as a lot are) but has since been selectively bred towards a specific breed type for a number of generations, such that this type is now typical of most of that breed, then it is no longer a crossbreed but a pure breed. This doesn't seem to be something we could reproduce on EV.

Furthermore, if a crossbreed of two of the pure breeds originally used to develop the new breed would not be eligible for registration in any of the new breed's registries, then I don't believe the cross should be considered as that new breed here on EV.

The Kisber Felver is very different in this respect to the Friesian Sport Horse, as the Friesian x warmblood or Friesian x TB crosses are all eligible for registration in the various Friesian Sport Horse registries. Furthermore, they are considered typical of a Friesian Sport Horse.

All resources I can find refer to the Kisber Felver as a rare breed from Hungary. At best I can find some dubious sources that claim some outcrosses to Trakehner, Thoroughbred, Arabian, Anglo-Arabian, Shagya Arabian, and Selle Francais are accepted (i.e. Kisber Felver x accepted breed = Kisber Felver) but no registry or similar that confirms this. I can find no resources (dubious or otherwise) that suggest a Thoroughbred x Trakehner or Thoroughbred x Akhal-Teke would be considered a Kisber Felver.

For EV purposes, we can at best consider it a pure breed that would allow outcrosses, but it's not a crossbreed.

That makes sense. Perhaps you could add that/more explanation to the main post of how you define a crossbreed vs. a "pure" crossbreed vs. a scenario like this so that people have an idea of what you're looking for prior to making suggestions? That way they can line up resources or do further research themselves, too.

Good idea. I've added a brief definition in the first post. Can you tell me if this is sufficiently clear?

Looks good. Thanks for pulling all this together and tracking everything!

Thanks. :) This has been fun. I can't believe how many crossbreeds there are!

What if we started developing the color listings as well. EV horses have accepted and unacceptable colors. What will be accepted here in EV? Combinations of the parents genes or no?

I would add the Nez, Abstang, and Warlanders to my breeding programs

Would it be possible to indicate duplicate entries to distinguish the number of unique crossbreds?

E.g.

Breed A
x Breed B = Breed C
x Breed D = Breed E

Breed B
x Breed A = Breed C
x Breed D = Breed F

(or color gray - but clicking S is faster...)

I'm just being lazy because I finished studying.

Last edited on 2017-02-20 at 22:52:01 by Ðemure

@Blue Moon
As far as I can tell, cross breed registries generally allow whatever colours are in either parent breeds.

@Demure
I can add in some formatting if you like, but I'm not sure how to handle entries where there's lots of different possible combinations that create a single crossbreed, for example:

Friesian
x Dutch Warmblood = Friesian Sport Horse
x Thoroughbred = Friesian Sport Horse
x Trakehner = Friesian Sport Horse

What do you suggest?

Maybe a separate list so both options are available? So:

Friesian Sport Horse
Friesian x DWB
Friesian x TB
Friesian x Trakehner